EK1 - good or bad?

[DavidM]

Before I read this David, I was thinking the same thing. Could this be Field thrown together or borrowed parts?

Hello

This is also a possibility.

Just as an example of strange looking EKs, not long ago there was a thread with an equally 'suspect' cross which was in appalling condition. It was immediately condemed as a fake. On close examination it turned out to be an original EK, just in trully awaful condition and apparently re-soldered or glued back together having come apart at some stage. Lets face it, if poor workmanship and beading flaws put everyone off buying things then none of us would own a '55'

Regards
David

[Panzer Rob]

David-

Thanks for your observations and input, they are greatly appreciated.

Is there anything about the hardware, frame or core that says "Fake" to you? Has anyone seen this pin, hinge or catch on a know fake? How about the core. If you notice there is a small dent on the 12 o'clock arm of the swaz. Also note that the 12 o'clock arm of the cross is slightly vaulted.

This cross came in a very large grouping of medals and documents. The other 7 medals (CCC, EKII, IAB, etc.) are all unquestionably original, as are the documents, and the grouping came straight from the widow of the veteran from a small little town. Now, I know that the fact that it came from the family means nothing, as there are one hundred different ways a "questionable" cross could have found its way into her possession. I did not buy the story, I bought the grouping, and out of all the items - which also included his Soldbuch, Erkennungsmarke and shoulder straps, the EK1 is the only "oddball" piece. I do find it interesting that the medals that he would have been wearing on his tunic (the EK1, IAB, CCC, BWB then SWB) all have the same amount of wear, aging, and patina to them.

A very strange cross to say the least.

I'm honestly a bit surprised by the lack of help/input from some of the other cross experts here, it's as if my threads are being ignored for some reason... I was hoping that we'd see some contributions from them


Thanks,
Rob

[DavidM]

Hello

It is a very strange cross. I can't say that I've come across that particular hinge before, (but then again there are a lot of EKs I haven't seen as yet), although I have seen similar ones. The pin is vaguely reminiscent of a couple of wartime pins, but then again it also appears to be quite thick; thicker than most that I have seen. The hole in it? Who knows. I have seen holes and other things on totally genuine EKs, 1st and 2nd class, before now, and somewhere in the back of my mind I am certain that I once saw a maker marked, and accepted as a genuine original, EK1 with a similar hole. Who put the hole there and why I have no idea. What I'm getting at is that the hole is not that important in the sea of things. The front of it is as flawed as anything I've seen. Field made? A possibility. Something put together out of bits and pieces? A possibilty. A genuine piece, poorly constructed or broken and then put back together? A possibility. A fake? A posibility. The repainted core is, again, not that important as there are plenty of examples on the forum of perfectly original EKs which have been repainted.

Sorry, I'm not being deliberately vague about this, it's just that at this stage any of the above is possible. What I would say is that if all the other items in the grouping you bought are clearly and absolutely genuine, and all appear to have similar wear and patina, then why would anyone put this in as a genuine item if it isn't? Given it's overall appearance and some of the better fakes that are available you would think, (well I would anyway), that something half way decent would put into the group.

Hopefully, as you say, the real EK experts will chime in. If it is a fake it's likely that someone will recognise some feature of it and be able to say so. Likewise if it's a messed about with genuine item. If it is a field made piece then it is likely to be unique and unidentifiable.

Purely my opinion, but at the moment I'd side with this being a field made item for no other reason than, in my opinion, no self respecting faker would churn out anything with the crudeness of this one. A clue might be in where and when the EK was awarded. Do you know?

Regards
David

[Panzer Rob]

David-

The EKI was awarded on 19.Jan.1944, 7./Gren.Rgt.258, Korps-Abteilung B

It was awarded in the field, with his unit.

Rob.

[Peter Wiking]

I think the cross is original. It appears that a repair has been done as marks from pliers can be seen in the corners on the rear surface of the upper arm. The hole on the reverse plate must be a guide hole for the antispin peg if screwplates was used. I think someone washed the cross. That often ruin natural patina.

Peter

[Panzer Rob]

I think the cross is original. It appears that a repair has been done as marks from pliers can be seen in the corners on the rear surface of the upper arm. The hole on the reverse plate must be a guide hole for the antispin peg if screwplates was used. I think someone washed the cross. That often ruin natural patina.

Peter

Peter-

Just a thought, but would it be possible that the marks on the top of the 12 o'clock arm are from that arm being vaulted?

Thank you for your input and opinion, I appreciate it.

Rob

[Peter Wiking]

Peter-

Just a thought, but would it be possible that the marks on the top of the 12 o'clock arm are from that arm being vaulted?

Thank you for your input and opinion, I appreciate it.

Rob

It looks like it is vaulted by the owner and not the producer. I think they vaulted it by bending it in the hand or against a piece of wood. It is possible that this hand vaulting made the upper arm split in the soldering. They repaired/resoldered that arm by clamping it together with pliers.

Peter

[meriksson]

Well i have a EK that have this thick soldering line along the edges, and that one is totaly fake " I think its lead". I do only know one EK1 orginal maker that have a lot off die flaws and that is Maybauer, yes some other also but not like this one. I belive the hole is were they poored "spell?" the lead in, just to put back and front together and i mean the fakers that made it! Sorry in my world not a real one.
Mikael

[Panzer Rob]

Well i have a EK that have this thick soldering line along the edges, and that one is totaly fake " I think its lead". I do only know one EK1 orginal maker that have a lot off die flaws and that is Maybauer, yes some other also but not like this one. I belive the hole is were they poored "spell?" the lead in, just to put back and front together and i mean the fakers that made it! Sorry in my world not a real one.
Mikael

Thanks for your opinion, Mikael.

Just to correct you, the filler is not really "thick" - we're talling a fraction of a mm here. Don't forget that the cross is magnified several times in the photographs

Would you be able to post pictures of the fake EKI you mentioned?

Thanks,
Rob

[DavidM]

Hello

If someone has poured lead into the back of the cross to join it back together, given where the hole is it would have had to cover the entire internal back of the core. Correspondingly the weight of the item will be way off. Can you weigh the cross and provide measurements for it.

Regards
David

[Panzer Rob]

David-

I will see if I can find a scale to weigh it.

The core is iron, and honestly IMHO there's no way lead was poured through that hole. It's very, very small and there would be evidence of leftover lead, which there is none. Peter's suggestion that it could be the location for a nonspin peg makes perfect sense.

Let me see if I can get you a weight. In hand it feels the same weight as my L/50 and Meybauer EK1's...

Thanks,
Rob

[Panzer Rob]

Sorry, but I can't find a scale that I can weigh the cross with - not accurately, anyway... The digital scale here at work is broken

Rob

[DavidM]

Hello

No worries. I too would agree that it is unlikely that anyone poured lead into the cross through that hole to stick it back together. But if you can find some scales the weight of it would still be a useful pointer. I'm still sticking my neck out and saying field made.

Now I've made that bold statement the real experts will join in and shoot me down.

Regards
David