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**RobertE** · 12-10-2006, 01:34 PM

Ebay commission? Don't make me laugh. Items are removed from auction for any number of reasons, including trading the items, keeping them, or other off-line deals. Items are routinely traded, and ebay doesn't mind - if they did, they wouldn't end auctions that are huge money making engines for them because the item contains a swastika. Should I not have made an off-line bid for the large Dachau insignia group I bought off-line? According to this line of reasoning, I should have sent ebay a check for that off-line transaction. I did find out about the auction through ebay, after all.

Had I not received an acceptable offer, I would have let the auction run. Maybe I would have got more, maybe less - it's academic. I'm not sure why folks are so up in arms about "misuse" if ebay - they always get their pound of flesh. Something else perhaps?

**WenRan** · 12-10-2006, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by RobertE View Post

Ebay commission? Don't make me laugh. Items are removed from auction for any number of reasons, including trading the items, keeping them, or other off-line deals. Items are routinely traded, and ebay doesn't mind - if they did, they wouldn't end auctions that are huge money making engines for them because the item contains a swastika. Should I not have made an off-line bid for the large Dachau insignia group I bought off-line? According to this line of reasoning, I should have sent ebay a check for that off-line transaction. I did find out about the auction through ebay, after all.

Had I not received an acceptable offer, I would have let the auction run. Maybe I would have got more, maybe less - it's academic. I'm not sure why folks are so up in arms about "misuse" if ebay - they always get their pound of flesh. Something else perhaps?

That is my point

.

**RobertE** · 12-10-2006, 01:55 PM

This is foolishness. Talk about apples and oranges. Did any of the "Rightous Ebay" crowd consider that the document went to someone who saw it on the forum? if you missed it and were bidding, i'm truly sorry for your disappointment, which I too have experienced when I missed out on an item. If you're just discussing the moral issue of ending an auction early on ebay, then go find another thread to attack.

**Sal Williams** · 12-10-2006, 02:15 PM

Robert, I am not up in arms. I am also not concerned about ebay. You were pretty clear about your intent to sort of shop it around on ebay and clearly were giving it exposure here. It just seems a little unfair to put it up for auction when you did not intend to let it run to completion. It had reached $9800.00 so a last minute snipe of 3K as you had mentioned was out of the question. Many days were left in the auction. Do you see how this might make the bidders feel like dupes? All in all I don't think it is the end of the world and I don't think it makes you a bad guy but in a way you did inconvenience some innocent bidders who had no chance by using the auction as advertisment.

Best, Sal

**Bob Hritz** · 12-10-2006, 02:25 PM

Robert E,

Each sets his own morality.

I do not care about the urkunde and mappe; I have had many and they do not interest me. I just posted my feelings, and I apologize if my morality offended you.

For anyone's information, Ebay does have a system to pay the sale fees for items that are ended early and sold otherwise. I have used it.

Bob Hritz

**RobertE** · 12-10-2006, 02:30 PM

Sal, from that perspective I can see your point. On those (few) occasions where I have run a high value item, it is typically reported to ebay even if it bears no "offensive" symbols, and then I'm deluged with offers. In this case, i was certain any one of the 60 plus watchers would help ebay see the error of my ways - in some cases, by telling them was a big bird with a swastika in it's feet on the cover of the document. In a auction set that doesn't allow Wehrpass sales, that's pretty much the end.

That's what i meant by advertisement - look at the helmets with decals that start, run for two days, and then are removed. I assumed it would happen in this case, and am fairly sure it would of for the reasons stated.

I would have let it run, and assuming ebay didn't end it, hope for a reasonable bid. I was offered off-line what I considered to be a fair price, or more than fair, and took it. Again, I'm fairly confident that ebay would have ended it anyway, once properly tipped off.

**RobertE** · 12-10-2006, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post

Robert E,

Each sets his own morality.

I do not care about the urkunde and mappe; I have had many and they do not interest me. I just posted my feelings, and I apologize if my morality offended you.

For anyone's information, Ebay does have a system to pay the sale fees for items that are ended early and sold otherwise. I have used it.

Bob Hritz

No, but that statement certainly did. You confuse morality with your business practices, which is fine. I suggest you take this to a PM if you intend to insult another forum member with your perceptions of honesty. Delighted you've had these in the past and are above the fray, but I certainly don't need you to be my moral compass, based on your ebay fee issue.

**Sal Williams** · 12-10-2006, 02:38 PM

Robert, it really is not the end of the world in any case. Just thought you might want to hear another point of view. For some(me included) this just seemed a little unfair. I am sure you did not mean to ruffle any feathers. In the future you will be aware that this method does rub some people a little wrong. Naturally you can still do whatever you see fit. I didn't mean to make a huge fuss out of this, just was stating an opinion. Lets all go back to collecting. It was a lovely map in any case (and you are right ,I did have the tiniest hope I could snipe it for a rediculous bargain

)

Best, Sal

**Sal Williams** · 12-10-2006, 02:41 PM

I don't think Bob was trying to insult you, he is a very good guy and doesn't engage in slaging other members.

**ben bijker** · 12-10-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post

Robert E,

Each sets his own morality.

Bob Hritz

My reaction doesn't have anything to do with this topic, but with morality.

You feel sorry for ebay that they don't get there comission.

I would like to ask you a question.

You sell a badge on consignement base as original.
After a year or 2 the buyer does find out that is is a fake, and he mails you about it.
Would you hide yourself behind the "consignment sale", or would you try to solve it???

Morality is slippery.....

Ben

**Bob Hritz** · 12-10-2006, 05:08 PM

Yes, Ben morality is slippery. Each of us tries to be a good man, or would not be tolerated around here, in such a tight knit community.

I just pay the fees when I use a service. I pay my taxes, on everything I sell. I don't drive past the toll both on the highways. I don't exceed the speed limit and I obey traffic laws.

I also do not post prohibited items on Ebay, since they are clear about what is acceptable and what is not. I do not do it because it is against the rules. I do not avoid fees because I can get away with it. I do not like Ebay, but I try to play by the rules. Just because one can get away with something does not make it right. Teach Ebay a lesson: don't use them for buying or selling!

And yes, when I sell something, on consignment, the sale is over after the inspection period. I do believe that at some point, a transaction should be completed. If I own the item, and sell it, I provide a 10 day inspection period. After that, the deal is over. If one needs lifetime guarantees, I cannot guarantee I will be around and breathing tomorrow. I would suggest those who do not appreciate this refrain from dealing with me. Other than little stuff, I mainly sell to dealers, now, to avoid all the difficulties. I am not a banker or pawnbroker and do not wish to be.

And Robert; I only wanted to make a point, and you were handy. The urkunde and mappe are very nice and I hope you got a good price, for the high condition and preservation of a fragile piece. It should bring top price, as it cannot be upgraded and is not easy to find in such pristine condition. I don't agree with your method, but you are free to dispose and advertise a fine item as you wish. Luckily we live in a country where enterprise, as well as collecting, is not prohibited.

Bob Hritz

**RobertE** · 12-10-2006, 05:31 PM

Bob, thanks for bringing this to a civil conclusion. I retired last August after 25 years of active duty in the Marine Corps, and understand about rules. Civilian and otherwise.

**ben bijker** · 12-10-2006, 05:50 PM

And yes, when I sell something, on consignment, the sale is over after the inspection period. I do believe that at some point, a transaction should be completed. If I own the item, and sell it, I provide a 10 day inspection period. After that, the deal is over. If one needs lifetime guarantees, I cannot guarantee I will be around and breathing tomorrow. I would suggest those who do not appreciate this refrain from dealing with me. Other than little stuff, I mainly sell to dealers, now, to avoid all the difficulties. I am not a banker or pawnbroker and do not wish to be.

Bob Hritz[/quote]

Slippery isn't the right phrase, it's flexible....
I bought this item partially based on your name and reputation, as I told you.
I was counting on your expertise as a long time collector, which I wrote to you as well, and I do recall you were flattered.
I have the responsibility of investigating what I buy, I expect the seller to do the same on his end.
Items don't turn fake overnight.
But I agree it's far easier to let the dealers do their homework and take the heat if an item turns out to be fake after a while.

But you are right, I will never EVER buy anything from you again, not on the forum, and not on ebay.

O, and this is not an attempt to get you to take the badge back, it's about morality

Ben

**WenRan** · 12-10-2006, 06:01 PM

[QUOTE=Bob Hritz;1729607]

I also do not post prohibited items on Ebay, since they are clear about what is acceptable and what is not. I do not do it because it is against the rules. I do not avoid fees because I can get away with it. I do not like Ebay, but I try to play by the rules. Just because one can get away with something does not make it right. Teach Ebay a lesson: don't use them for buying or selling!

I understand your point here Bob.
I know it is also pointed to me .
But the main issue Is that Robert had have a offline nice deal.
OFFLINE .I really support Robert here.
Why waiting 7 days when You have reached your TARGET PRICE
He also can report to ebay that the item is lost

... no FEES to be payed
I would do the same , saving money on ww2 Germany related haters .
HELL i did it 4 times

What we are collecting is World History.
The only problem is : it has a SWASTIKA

.
Cheers Randy

**Kevin V.** · 12-11-2006, 07:08 AM

Hi guys congrats to the new owner! An excellent piece.
I made a bid on ebay of 10000$ and would have gone up to 13000$ but no luck!
I hope the other buyer gave more then this!!!!
Maybe next time.

sincerely

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