Schinkel EK1 with screw plate

[nonameno]

Hi Gentlemen,
What do you think of this Schinkel form EK 1 with screw back plate? It appears to be a one piece cross.
Thank you,
Curtiss

[Don D.]

Looks ok to me but I'm not an expert. Perhaps more people will chime in.

[DavidM]

Hello

The cross looks good to me as well. The screw disc and backing plate are the same as some encountered on WW1 EK1s. I'm not 100% on this, but the 'PM' on the screw disc may be for Paul Meybauer of Berlin, who made EKs during both wars, (and before as well).

Either way, I like it.

Regards
David

[Biro]

While the components themselves may all be good - and I think probably are - I do not think they started life together.

There is absolutely no wear or patina on the reverse of the cross consistant with this attatchment device having been rotated on and off it over the years - as can be clearly seen on the example below.

Nice bits, not a 'set' though IMO..

Marshall

[George Stimson]

Is it likely that the screwplate would fit the threads of the post if it wasn't an original component of this cross? (Has anyone ever tried different posts vs. plates to see if they were interchangable? The only switch I ever tried didn't fit.)

[LuckyLuudje]

Is it likely that the screwplate would fit the threads of the post if it wasn't an original component of this cross? (Has anyone ever tried different posts vs. plates to see if they were interchangable? The only switch I ever tried didn't fit.)

I tried it with 2 Schinkel screw-backs of my, but it didn't fit.
If you look at the disc, it looks manipulated.

The screw on mine 1939 schinkel doesn't have the silvermark and PM mark like the ones I saw until this day on WW1 EK's.

De disc looks good and found on One Piece Schinkels and unmarked 1939 ek1's with the typical screw.

As for the ek1 it self I'm not so sure.
The best lead I have on the one piece Schinkel is another maker than Maybauer.
I have seen a lot of these one piece schinkels turn up with the strangest paint, patina, setup etc. lately.
Beter pictures are needed to be sure.

The cross in particular is for sale at a German dealer for only 250 euro's.
I made an order last saturday morning because I want to study this cross and return it when it is no good.
Till now I haven't recieved a reaction.

Regards, Luud

[LuckyLuudje]

i edited the pics.
And it looks like they manipulated the disc.
The right disc is of my 1939 Maybauer schinkel posted here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=drgm

and the left is the disc of the cross in question.

[LuckyLuudje]

I was to late, the EK was already sold to someone else!
Sadly enough I still couldn't get a hold of one of those crosses I suspect in my hands to examine it.
So I hope that the new buyer will post this cross when he reads this with measurements and weight.

But with all the information I do have, I think the cross itself is a casted copy of an original.
To make the (in my opinion casted scopies) more convincing they used the set-ups (needle and screw) of other awards, often from original early pieces.

Take a look at this one piece clamshell.
They were very creative again on the setup :-)

[LuckyLuudje]

This clamshell was offered to a friend of mine.
We both didn't like it at all for a lot of reasons and passed on it.
A week later it was for sale on a German auction site.
It was sold for 200 euro If I remember it corect.

A litlle later it was (and still is) for sale for 700 euro at http://www.ww-collection.de Item number 4085

[ben bijker]

Yep, I don't like it either.

these crosses are supposed to be rare, but pop up evey other week or so, at the moment.

I also believe that something is wrong here, that's why I asked everyone to post his one-piece schinkels in this thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=191263

But so far no replies at all.
There must be members that have a one-piece schinkel in their collection, so please post your pics.

If you prefer not to, please be so kind to post weight and dimensions.
If these pieces are cast copies, that should be enough.

Ben

[Biro]

One of my favourite unanswered questions on this forum is one frequently asked by George Stimson...

.." If Schinkelform EK's are supposed to be made utilising leftover WW1 frames, why are there one-piece examples... "

Ben...

At the bottom of the page you link to above, there are a number of 'similar threads' featuring one-piece examples. I'm sure there would be no problem with you lifting these pics and posting them here in order to prove a point...

Marshall

[Don D.]

But you also have one piece Imperial crosses from the 20s and 30s so why would you not have one piece schinkels?

[StefanK.]

.." If Schinkelform EK's are supposed to be made utilising leftover WW1 frames, why are there one-piece examples... "

I cannot follow you. what has the one got to do with the other?


Stefan

[ben bijker]

Ben...

At the bottom of the page you link to above, there are a number of 'similar threads' featuring one-piece examples. I'm sure there would be no problem with you lifting these pics and posting them here in order to prove a point...

Marshall[/quote]

Hi Marshall,

yes, I could do that, but obviously no one is interested in posting his pics in this thread.
I can and will not force anyone to post.
Since there are no pictures posted, I can't point out my points of concern.
So be it.

I don't understand why there is so little interest in this thread, apparently everybody that ownes a one-piece schinkel is convinced that it is good.


@ Stefan:
I think that Biro means that if there is no reason for the existance of one-piece Schinkels, then they are all fake.

Ben

[Tiger 1]

Are better pictures of this iron cross possible? These are a bit hazy for details.

I'm not so sure about this EK. Several things bother me.

The way I see it, the shape of the cross isn't quite a Schinkel style. The beading curves look to start at the inside corners without the prominent parallel section we see in true Schinkels. The cross also looks a bit 'bulky' and doesn't have the graceful look of a Schinkel style we expect to see. Perhaps the angle the pics were taken?

Secondly, I wonder if the surface disturbances on the obverse upper corner of the left arm and on the reverse are symtomatic of a casting. Better pics are needed.

I do agree with Marshall that this is an assembly of 'bits and not a set'.

Thirdly,there seems to be way too many of these one piece Schinkels with unusual attachment devices. Genuine Schinkel EKIs are rare and not readily found. Maybe someone is feeding the wants of the market place?

Tony