Grand Cross

[Ron C.]

What are your thoughts regarding this one? Stories have little bearing on the item; however, if you are interested, I got it in Heidelberg around 1973 or 1974. There was a jewelry store that had been in a family for many years. A younger man had bought the old store from the family. In cleaning out the back room he had found on old box stuck back in the storage area of the store. When he found it, it was nearly full of ribbons (mostly 2 and 3 place), and had a few medals and badges in it also. This was one of the medals in it. I bought all the things he showed me. He knew nothing else other than he found it in the storage area while cleaning it out.

As you can see it is marked "925" and "L/21"

Ron

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

Hi Ron,
A couple of observations. I believe that an original Grand Cross would exhibit a ring that dips more downward into the frame, and not rest squarly on top of the cross arm. Secondly, 925 is an English hallmark. Some Imperial items are accepted with this content mark, but I don't think it should be found on TR items. I am sure others will chime in, and please correct me if I am I have posted incorrect information.

[Stephen Stout]

I would say it is a fake, and I am 99.99% sure. Because the ring dips in the cross. And only the Reich Marshall was issued a Grand Cross.

[Dietrich Maerz]

The "accepted" Grand Cross is of the maker Juncker and has the dipping ring as mentioned.
So this can only be - in the best case - a contemporary (pre-45) "shop or museum sample".

[Dietrich Maerz]

I would say it is a fake, and I am 99.99% sure. Because the ring dips in the cross. And only the Reich Marshall was issued a Grand Cross.

As mentioned above, the ring needs to dip into the frame with the Grand Cross. And yes, only one was awarded, but that does not mean that not more were produced. They surely were and there is ample written and physical evidence about that.

It would also completely wrong to say that only +/- 7300 Knights Crosses have been awarded and that is also the number produced. Nothing could be further from the truth. Same with oaks and the higher awards.

[Stephen Stout]

As mentioned above, the ring needs to dip into the frame with the Grand Cross. And yes, only one was awarded, but that does not mean that not more were produced. They surely were and there is ample written and physical evidence about that.

It would also completely wrong to say that only +/- 7300 Knights Crosses have been awarded and that is also the number produced. Nothing could be further from the truth. Same with oaks and the higher awards.

Dietrich,
Do you know of anyone that owns a REAL Grand Cross? If so do you have pictures? Danke!
Stephen

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, I know of several people. Here's a picture.

[Stephen Stout]

Yes, I know of several people. Here's a picture.

Dietrich,
All I have to say is "Damn that is a beauty!!".
Stephen

[Jørgen E]

I thought all Grand Crosses were lost during the war?

[nellyp51]

Oh yea, thats for sure. About the beauty of the grand cross that is.

[ekhunter]

Gc

I thought all Grand Crosses were lost during the war?

No, not all were lost, for example one was taken off of Goring himself by a G.I., I believe one was found at his Hunting Lodge. I'm sure their are some more, but not all were lost.

[ekhunter]

As mentioned above, the ring needs to dip into the frame with the Grand Cross. And yes, only one was awarded, but that does not mean that not more were produced. They surely were and there is ample written and physical evidence about that.

It would also completely wrong to say that only +/- 7300 Knights Crosses have been awarded and that is also the number produced. Nothing could be further from the truth. Same with oaks and the higher awards.

Obviously more were made than issued, but how many more is a good question. Taking into account those that were made and never awarded due to the end of the war, those that were 'duplicates' or 'wearer copies', jeweller displays, those in production toward the very end, and so on, I still think the number is in the high 7000 something range. Just MHO. Do you think it tops the 8000 mark? Maybe?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Do you mean 8000 for the RK's? If so, the number is way too low, IMHO.

For the Grand Cross a German publication mentions at least 10 prototypes. I think this number is again too low since the PKZ sold to collectors and also supplied museums. They would not have done that when only having 8 or 8 left.

[Dave Kane]

Way more!!!!!

Here alone are 5....

[ekhunter]

Rk

Do you mean 8000 for the RK's? If so, the number is way too low, IMHO.

For the Grand Cross a German publication mentions at least 10 prototypes. I think this number is again too low since the PKZ sold to collectors and also supplied museums. They would not have done that when only having 8 or 8 left.

I meant RK's. So how many(RK's) do you think were made, just curious? Also, what about the Zimmermann Grand Crosses that Detlev had?