West Point RK Research

[Dietrich Maerz]

Two pair of eyes see more than one!

[Dietrich Maerz]

The craftmanship of the DK in Gold with Diamonds is incredible, too. This is the top of the wreath, area is about 12 mm wide and 7 mm high. The amount of diamonds on the three pieces is different, considerably so. And so is the weight. This is the benefit of not just handling one piece, but all three.

I'm very happy with the detail I could capture!

[Richard]

Simply incredible. What beautiful pieces. What an honor to be able to handle them and inspect them personally.
Richard V

[Dietrich Maerz]

I would love to post more and sooner or later I will do so. Now I have to sort out everything and get in in row for the book.

They had some more DK in Gold which were fake, but one good Zimmermann in Silver. Also, the RK's they have were post war, unmarked S&L B-Types with incredible bad oaks, swords and diamonds attached.

So Bob, Dr. Rich was correct!

Dietrich

[Bob Hritz]

Yes, Dietrich, the medals you have photographed are really the finest of the finest. Imagine the poor soldier who risked his life, in the war, and brought these home. Having them stolen by the US treasury Department agents so the West Point Museum could have them must be of little comfort to him, not to mention the financial loss. Somehow I just think that thieves should be acknowledged and the possession of property gotten in such an unsavory manner is nothing short of being a pack of thieves. I don't suppose they have made any efforts to compensate the soldier who brought them back. Of course not, he is Mexican-American and therefore not afforded the protection of 'good Americans'. How sad we live in a society that not only condones this discrimination, but is proud of the display of purloined goods.

Bob Hritz

[Dietrich Maerz]

Bob,

I can see your point but some will say that he who took it from Klessheim was the first thief in the row!!??

"Was ein Dieb stahl, das stiehlst Du dem Dieb - ward leichter ein Eigen erlangt?"

In the bigger picture I think it's good that the items ended up where they are now. It's a uselss discussion, IMHO.

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Thanks Dietrich....looking forward!!

Any 'hint' as to how, where and when it aquired the post war RK's?

[Dietrich Maerz]

We asked and he looked into the files. I only remember that one cross came form California. The two fake DK's were aquired in the early 60's if I remember correctly. Mike might know more because he was looking very closely. Could have been donations.

They didn't make a big fuzz about it anyway - they knew already.

[Dave Kane]

We asked and he looked into the files. I only remember that one cross came form California. The two fake DK's were aquired in the early 60's if I remember correctly. Mike might know more because he was looking very closely. Could have been donations.

They didn't make a big fuzz about it anyway - they knew already.

Actually, that's very good information Dietrich!!! It actually proves that this stuff was being REPRODUCED as early as the 60's and negates the arguement that reproductions couldn't have been offered then as the ORIGINAL stuff was so inexpensive......a very good tidbit of info

[Dietrich Maerz]

Please wiat till Mike confirms what I said regarding the time frame. I was very busy with 'my' stuff and not so involved into the fakes. The DK were two different types and one was really ugly with bent pins instead of rivets.

Please wait for him before drawing conclusions.

[Bob Hritz]

Dietrich,

Are you saying the Treasury Department should take any war souvenir they need for the West Point Museum, even from your collection? All soldiers take war spoils, so therefore you will gladly surrender all of your and other collectors items to the US Government, when they want them?

I think the discussion is as useless as discussing the theft of my collection, years ago. West Point is no different than the thieves who broke into my home. No, other collectors were only too happy to buy the spoils of my collection. Not one single piece was recovered.

A thief is a thief, whether he actually does the theft of gladly acquires the stolen property. Giving praise to thieves turns my stomache.

Bob Hritz

[Dietrich Maerz]

Bob,

naturally I don not condone either one "theft" nor the other. I'm just happy that I could see those things, handle them and record in more detail for us collectors. That's all.

A discussion about the how, when and why they got there is maybe interesting but useless.

And of course I'm very angry to hear what happened to you!

Dietrich

[MIKE12550]

I live 20 minutes from the museum, and I have seen these awards myself through a glass case. They are incredible, the awards we dream about!
I have not been there in about a year or so, I know they only display a small portion of what they actually have! I have thought about what it would be like to talk to the curators and be shown the awards that were not on display. Looks like you fellas did just that and good for you! I just wish that I could have been there too! Dietrich's new book is something I look forward too!

Mike

[Mike P.]

Please wiat till Mike confirms what I said regarding the time frame. I was very busy with 'my' stuff and not so involved into the fakes. The DK were two different types and one was really ugly with bent pins instead of rivets.

Please wait for him before drawing conclusions.

Thanks again Dietrich , I'm glad I could help.
As far as the 3 "normal" DK's ...the Silver Zimmerman was great , but so heavily tarnished that I didn't even notice the #20 (Dietrich spotted it right away).. That was a Donation from the Son of a Vet. The other 2 DKiG's were both Souval's ..they looked them up in the files and found that they were bought in 1962 for a static display on Campus . As Dietrich mentioned ..it was interesting that these both had very thin wires/pins (holding the wreath) coming out the back and bent over ..no rivets at all. But they both had that tell-tale catch. I dealt with Ken Lane back then and bought a DKiG from him in 1970 (still have it as an example) It has the same Souval catch but , the back on mine is totally smooth without any rivets or pins.
This proves that Soval was producing those repros back in 1962 and these were probably the first pattern..when you consider that many of the early fakes had "Germany" cast in the back in English , the Souval was a pretty good fake for back then .
They said the 3 S&L "B Types" were also bought for a specific display but , they didn't look them up ..that last one with the Oaks & Swords was bizarre , they looked it up and found that it came from a dealer in Hollywood .. that was a strange one ...the S&L's were better looking than that one.
The Museum is there for whatever the Cadets need ..so if the Cadets require a display in a Classroom , only representative pieces will be bought and used ...none of the actual artifacts ever leave the Museum for something like that.
What creates problems is ...once an item is purchased , they have to tag it , assign a number and put it in the inventory. Luckily they don't have very many "representative examples" to keep track of ...otherwise that could become confusing

[Dave Kane]

Mike, thanks for the confirmation that indeed repos were made, bought and distributed as early as 1962