Görings Medals question

[W. C. Stump]

RING?

I would assume it was lost to history after his personal items that he was wearing were taken from him at the Augsburg Interrogation center. He may have given it to one of the officers prior to him arriving at the interrogation center. He also had a gold watch that ended up with Major Kabala along with his medals. No mention of a large ring was made by Kabala's son at the time I inspected the medals his father took from Goring. The gold watch was given to Kabala's second wife and was still in her possession in the late 60's.

[CRBeery]

At the last MAX show I had a brief conversation with a gentleman in the crowd that had a pin back LW breast eagle that was supposed to have belonged to Goring. He showed it to me and I must say that the construction was different from anything else I have looked at. The whole thing seemed to be blanked out of 1/8" material and then the adler was engraved into it. Very unique! The only thing I found strange was the fact that it was silver in color. I do not recall any markings on it. The piece was reportedly being offered for sale by George Peterson so perhaps some of you have knowledge of this piece?

[C.C.Reilly]

Ring and other possessions

Keep in mind that the only ring he was allowed to have in captivity was his wedding band. That indicates the the ring you are referring to "should" have been included on the Spandau Prison inventory of his property. During his captivity Goering was allowed access to his property, and could also have used this ring as a bribe, I mean gift. After his suicide, some of the confiscated items were returned to Emmy Goering.

So it seems he either gave it to someone, it was stolen, or possibly was returned to his wife. What do you think?

[Mike Coleman]

At the time of Goring's surrender he wore two rings: his wedding band which he wore on the ring finger of his right hand as is the German custom and a gold ring with a large ruby on the ring finger of his left hand. That ring is now in the possession of a businessman and aquaintance of my father's in Cincinnati. He is not a collector and keeps it as a curiosity and historical artifact. He has no intention of it leaving his family.

[von ropen]

Thanks all for this interesing information...

[merdock]

Hi Mike,
The ring that you refer to was it the large square ring he has on his left hand don't know what was in centre .

Merdock

[W. C. Stump]

GORING'S RINGS

Goring had a number of rings with him at the time of his surrender. One ring that I recall was a large signet ring that Goring used to place a wax seal to documents. The doctor at Nuremberg who took the suicide capsule container also had the ring. At one time, in the 60's he would make a wax seal from Goring's ring and charged $5.00 for it. Roger Steele, the pioneer relic deal and fake monger, took one of the was seals and had 14K gold rings made from the seal and sold them. He also had silver rings of the same type made. Where the original ring is today is not known to me.

[Mike Coleman]

High Murdock,
The ring is a large gold ring, very plain but set with a large red stone which I was told was a ruby. The last time I saw it was several years ago when we were over for the evening and my new hobby of collecting German medals was discussed (My father, a veteran and very patriotic, did not much approve of the subject of my interest - he has warmed to it as the values have risen!). I was about 12 or 13 and it fit over my thumb with room to spare, was very heavy and showed signs of wear. I don't recall if the karat wt of the stone was ever discussed but I believe the gold was 18 karat rather than 14. At that time I was too naive to look for markings inside the band.

[Mike Coleman]

Dear Merdock,
Very sorry for misspelling your name. Please accept my apologies.
Mike C.

[JaJoWal]

Reply to Mr. Stump's Goring Medal Discussion

reply As the daughter of LTC Paul Kubala, I would like to clarify what I consider misinformation presented to William Stump in the 1960's by his son, Peter Kubala regarding Nazi memorabilia that he had for sale and about our father, Paul Kubala. I had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Stump prior to his death and presented the following as evidence that Peter Kubala lied about obtaining the Nazi memorabilia from our father.
Lt. Colonel (then major) Paul Kubala was divorced from Peter's mother early on in the war. My father was recalled from the African campaign at the request of the commanding officer at the base in Kentucky where she was living. Due to certain problems with her behavior, she had compromised my father's situation the field of intelligence. He stayed long enough to remove her from the base, signed divorce papers and immediately left again for Africe. His obligation to her was child support only.
In his capacity of interpreter, interrogator and intelligence officer with the 7th Army, he moved from the African campaign, through Corsica and France and then towards the end of hostilities, to Augsburg, Germany in 1944. In addition to working with the 7th Army, G-2, he later served post war as the Military Governor of the Heidleburg region and then as an intelligence officer with the OSS. He never returned to Kentucky and had no contact with his son until he was 18 years of age.
My father and mother were married in 1945. He rotated back to the States in 1946 with his wife and daughter and immediately transferred to the Air Foce. His first assignment was to Wright Patterson, AFB. As an Air Technical Intelligence officer he was sent to Israel where he served as an adviser. He was one of the investigators for the Roswell UFO incident and other supposed sitings. While at Wright Patterson, he was promoted to Lt Colonel...this at a time when post-war promotions were frozen. His next assignment took the family (now 2 daughters) to Warner Robbins, GA and finally, his last position was that of Provost Marshall/Intelligence Officer at Patrick Air Force Base, Florida. These were the early days of the U.S. missile program. With his experience in the field of intelligence, he designed and managed the security of the program while it was under the auspices of the Air Force. He then took over the entire program (including all down range tracking facilities) for Pan American when he retired from the Air Force. Required all during these years, were the highest security clearances.
It should be obvious from the above narrative that Peter Kubala fabricated his story about receiving war memorabilia from his father when he was young as he never saw his father until he turned 18 (when his child support ended). Furthermore, he and his commanding officer, Colonel William Quinn (later General Quinn and others) testified many times that Paul Kubala did not have the Goring medals.
It is not difficult to imagine that since his son Peter and his mother continued to live near the 7th Army headquarters in Kentucky, that he could have acquired some Nazi medals from individuals who had returned back to that location at war's end and who knew of my father's involvement with the G-2.
Prior to his death, my father had been writing his memoirs and had been corresponding with his former commanding officer from the 7th Army, then General Quinn regarding details of events that General Quinn required for his own memoirs.
Immediately after my father's death, my mother began to receive threatening phone calls which eventually she found out had been instigated by Peter and his friends who claimed that they were members of the American Nazi Party. The calls finally ended when she advised the last caller that one of my father's closest friends was a station chief for the FBI and had been advised of the calls.
How coincidental that shortly after his father's death, Peter came up with Nazi memorabilia that he claimed was given to him by his father years prior while supposedly still living with his mother.
As a commanding officer of the 7th Army Interrogation Center, G-2, my father had occasion to meet and talk to about 2500 of the highest-ranking Nazi and Fascist prisoners captured by the 7th Army in the drive through the so-called German National redoubt area (he spoke 5 languages fluently). Considering the circumstances and turmoil of those days, the Goring medals were not considered "important" (as stated by Col Quinn, my father's commanding officer who testified about the loss of the medals) and were easily neglected. He was also often required to travel as when he went to Heidelburg to inform the local citizens of the location of live land mines in the area. Goring had provided the map and deciphered the locations during one of his interrogation sessions with my father, or when he was required to visit concentration camps, etc. During those days, the pressure was on night and day with regards to interrogations of prisioners before they were moved on to the French, and later, trail at Nuremburg.
My mother and uncle (an officer in the French resistance) accompanied my father to Augsburg for several reason, primary of which, was to testify against French collaborators that were tied to Klaus Barbie and his infamous atrocities. My mother and her brother had worked as informants to the 7th Army during their stay in the Grenoble region of France. My mother continued to work for the 7th Army while in Augsburg (as did my uncle) and saw little of my father during those days at Augsburg. They had been engaged for two years prior to their marriage in Heidelburg.
At age 18, Peter tracked down our father in Florida. The newfound and very brief relationship was fraught with problems from the beginning. In the initial visit (my sister and I were present for all four very brief visits), Peter did learn about some of his father's war experience and his duties with the 7th Army and it was at this time that he inquired about the watch that my father was wearing ( and wore until the day he died at which time it was placed in the bank.) e
The relationship ended bitterly when my father was forced to fire his son from a job that he had arranged for Peter with Pan Am at a missile tracking station in the Bahamas. There, he had been arrested and had compromised his security clearance. Peter had served on tour in the Marine Corps and my father had hoped that he had straightened out. Peter showed up at our home one last time with a wife and child in tow and, as usual, asking for money. My father had been conned one time too many by that time. The visit lasted only a few hours, my father gave the wife a small "baby' gift and sent them on, telling Peter not to return. It was the height of the Cuban crisis and my father did not have the time or patience to deal with a recalcitrant son.
My father died shortly thereafter at the age of 60 and was buried at Arlington National Cemetery.
Pete' behavior at our father's funeral was more than outrageous as he attempted to intimidate and threaten my mother, sister and me. He continued with his harassment after the funeral. Finally, upon receipt of a small life insurance policy left to him, he left my mother alone.
In conclusion, my brother's allegations were preposterous...conveniently made up after our father's death, well aware that Paul Kubala could do nothing about them. Upon earlier investigation, my father discovered that Peter had a history of problems during his adolescent years and apparently carried them forward into adulthood.
As a final note, I would like to add that my father came to this country from Germany at the age of 17 to escape the forces of Hitler, never to see his mother or sister again, and ultimately to fight against his own family. He served this country for 25 years in the military and 15 years as Security Manager for the missile program. He survived two world wars and was directly involved in the Cuban crisis. The security of the missile program was never compromised during his watch.
I have only recently discovered this web site and despite the years that all of these allecations took place, feel the need to present the truth to those interested in Mr. Stump's story as I did to him.

[Dietrich Maerz]

He was one of the investigators for the Roswell UFO incident and other supposed sitings.

So what happened there realy?

Dietrich

[Jeff V]

reply As the daughter of LTC Paul Kubala, I would like to clarify what I consider misinformation presented to William Stump in the 1960's by his son, Peter Kubala regarding Nazi memorabilia that he had for sale and about our father, Paul Kubala. I had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Stump prior to his death and presented the following as evidence that Peter Kubala lied about obtaining the Nazi memorabilia from our father.
Lt. Colonel (then major) Paul Kubala was divorced from Peter's mother early on in the war. My father was recalled from the African campaign at the request of the commanding officer at the base in Kentucky where she was living. Due to certain problems with her behavior, she had compromised my father's situation the field of intelligence. He stayed long enough to remove her from the base, signed divorce papers and immediately left again for Africe. His obligation to her was child support only.
In his capacity of interpreter, interrogator and intelligence officer with the 7th Army, he moved from the African campaign, through Corsica and France and then towards the end of hostilities, to Augsburg, Germany in 1944. In addition to working with the 7th Army, G-2, he later served post war as the Military Governor of the Heidleburg region and then as an intelligence officer with the OSS. He never returned to Kentucky and had no contact with his son until he was 18 years of age.
My father and mother were married in 1945. He rotated back to the States in 1946 with his wife and daughter and immediately transferred to the Air Foce. His first assignment was to Wright Patterson, AFB. As an Air Technical Intelligence officer he was sent to Israel where he served as an adviser. He was one of the investigators for the Roswell UFO incident and other supposed sitings. While at Wright Patterson, he was promoted to Lt Colonel...this at a time when post-war promotions were frozen. His next assignment took the family (now 2 daughters) to Warner Robbins, GA and finally, his last position was that of Provost Marshall/Intelligence Officer at Patrick Air Force Base, Florida. These were the early days of the U.S. missile program. With his experience in the field of intelligence, he designed and managed the security of the program while it was under the auspices of the Air Force. He then took over the entire program (including all down range tracking facilities) for Pan American when he retired from the Air Force. Required all during these years, were the highest security clearances.
It should be obvious from the above narrative that Peter Kubala fabricated his story about receiving war memorabilia from his father when he was young as he never saw his father until he turned 18 (when his child support ended). Furthermore, he and his commanding officer, Colonel William Quinn (later General Quinn and others) testified many times that Paul Kubala did not have the Goring medals.
It is not difficult to imagine that since his son Peter and his mother continued to live near the 7th Army headquarters in Kentucky, that he could have acquired some Nazi medals from individuals who had returned back to that location at war's end and who knew of my father's involvement with the G-2.
Prior to his death, my father had been writing his memoirs and had been corresponding with his former commanding officer from the 7th Army, then General Quinn regarding details of events that General Quinn required for his own memoirs.
Immediately after my father's death, my mother began to receive threatening phone calls which eventually she found out had been instigated by Peter and his friends who claimed that they were members of the American Nazi Party. The calls finally ended when she advised the last caller that one of my father's closest friends was a station chief for the FBI and had been advised of the calls.
How coincidental that shortly after his father's death, Peter came up with Nazi memorabilia that he claimed was given to him by his father years prior while supposedly still living with his mother.
As a commanding officer of the 7th Army Interrogation Center, G-2, my father had occasion to meet and talk to about 2500 of the highest-ranking Nazi and Fascist prisoners captured by the 7th Army in the drive through the so-called German National redoubt area (he spoke 5 languages fluently). Considering the circumstances and turmoil of those days, the Goring medals were not considered "important" (as stated by Col Quinn, my father's commanding officer who testified about the loss of the medals) and were easily neglected. He was also often required to travel as when he went to Heidelburg to inform the local citizens of the location of live land mines in the area. Goring had provided the map and deciphered the locations during one of his interrogation sessions with my father, or when he was required to visit concentration camps, etc. During those days, the pressure was on night and day with regards to interrogations of prisioners before they were moved on to the French, and later, trail at Nuremburg.
My mother and uncle (an officer in the French resistance) accompanied my father to Augsburg for several reason, primary of which, was to testify against French collaborators that were tied to Klaus Barbie and his infamous atrocities. My mother and her brother had worked as informants to the 7th Army during their stay in the Grenoble region of France. My mother continued to work for the 7th Army while in Augsburg (as did my uncle) and saw little of my father during those days at Augsburg. They had been engaged for two years prior to their marriage in Heidelburg.
At age 18, Peter tracked down our father in Florida. The newfound and very brief relationship was fraught with problems from the beginning. In the initial visit (my sister and I were present for all four very brief visits), Peter did learn about some of his father's war experience and his duties with the 7th Army and it was at this time that he inquired about the watch that my father was wearing ( and wore until the day he died at which time it was placed in the bank.) e
The relationship ended bitterly when my father was forced to fire his son from a job that he had arranged for Peter with Pan Am at a missile tracking station in the Bahamas. There, he had been arrested and had compromised his security clearance. Peter had served on tour in the Marine Corps and my father had hoped that he had straightened out. Peter showed up at our home one last time with a wife and child in tow and, as usual, asking for money. My father had been conned one time too many by that time. The visit lasted only a few hours, my father gave the wife a small "baby' gift and sent them on, telling Peter not to return. It was the height of the Cuban crisis and my father did not have the time or patience to deal with a recalcitrant son.
My father died shortly thereafter at the age of 60 and was buried at Arlington National Cemetery.
Pete' behavior at our father's funeral was more than outrageous as he attempted to intimidate and threaten my mother, sister and me. He continued with his harassment after the funeral. Finally, upon receipt of a small life insurance policy left to him, he left my mother alone.
In conclusion, my brother's allegations were preposterous...conveniently made up after our father's death, well aware that Paul Kubala could do nothing about them. Upon earlier investigation, my father discovered that Peter had a history of problems during his adolescent years and apparently carried them forward into adulthood.
As a final note, I would like to add that my father came to this country from Germany at the age of 17 to escape the forces of Hitler, never to see his mother or sister again, and ultimately to fight against his own family. He served this country for 25 years in the military and 15 years as Security Manager for the missile program. He survived two world wars and was directly involved in the Cuban crisis. The security of the missile program was never compromised during his watch.
I have only recently discovered this web site and despite the years that all of these allecations took place, feel the need to present the truth to those interested in Mr. Stump's story as I did to him.

Very interesting! Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing.
jeff

[tom hansen]

Bummer!


It was such a good story. Too bad Bill Stump did not survive to hear this, as it seemed to trouble him that these medals got away from him.

I am glad that you came on this site to tell the real story and set the record straight.

[Jeff V]

Tom. she said she had the opportunity to tell Bill before he died.

jeff

[Darrell]

Someone comes on the forum and posts the above information and is automatically assumed to be the real person "she" claims to be?

Before I buy any story, I'd like to see some proof .. pictures or something. There are some serious allegations to be taken at face value.

I guess after being in this hobby for this long .. I get a little suspicious and paranoid ....