KVK1 MM L/11- De- Nazified or ‘57??

[Peter Wiking]

Hi Ed T :

..and still are being done !
Douglas

Why would anyone today take a genuine WW2 cross, mount a 1939 date of the 1957 version only to get a lower price ?

Cheers.
Peter

[George Stimson]

Scott and Peter

"The intention with this cross was, originally, to put it up for sale on the e-stand, but I'm now having second thoughts?? I may keep it in my (humble) collection as the quality of the cross and also the de-nazification is so good. An interesting badge. Maybe jeweller quality alteration? Or is that just fantasy? Any thoughts?"

I would for sure keep it!

"Why would anyone today take a genuine WW2 cross, mount a 1939 date of the 1957 version only to get a lower price ?"

Would it necessarily be a lower price?

[Peter Wiking]

Hi George.
No. Not necessarily. They (fakers) would narrow the field in which they could find buyers and that could press the price down. I just try to find a reason why they would alter a genune wartime cross today. I am not in doubt. The 1957 crosses posted here are genuine crosses, converted in the 50's or 60's for German veterans.

On the other hand i would not be surprised if fakers find new "creative" ways of keeping the wheels turning.

Cheers.
Peter

[Grant Broadhurst]

The KvK is a very nicely done De-nazified one .

As stated earlier the very first 1957 KvK1,s were watime one,s with the 1957 centre disc featuring the 1939 date attached to the front .

Fakers are now removing the swastika on various fake WW2 awards to pass them off as real de-nazified WW2 awards or ( wrong ) 1957 awards .

[Ed Tainton]

KVK side

Side (Gord Williamson once owned this cross)

[Douglas 5]

Info

Hi ED ;

Very interesting picture!!
But first need to ask if the KvK in post 20 is the same KvK in the box as in post 12 ?? Did the KvK come with the box ?..and does the box have a push button ?
Is the maker mark 3 in a squere on the back ...is it a light or deep strike ?
Can you actually see the solder on the entire edge or only in spots ?
Attaching a picture , this one not soldered -so you can compare it to , which it probably will match .
2 attachment types exist .

Douglas

[Peter Wiking]

Are you saying that they are made today ?

Cheers.
Peter

[Ed Tainton]

Kvk

Yes the same. Yes with box, no push button. deeper at bottom of square. in spots but not too sure.Top of box has fading KVK with swords.

[Douglas 5]

Cheeper by the Hunderts

Hi Peter :

How many hundred do you want ??? Conversions for any KvK 1's or 2's , but seams to prefer Makers 3 and 4 .
Members , this not a joke !!!! I thought this would have been know to this forum already ???
Regretably ... yes I know of one company in Germany ( I think it is in Munich) that possibly will make some for you today Jan 29, 2006 .
He has in the past few years , who knows how long he has been at it ! I do not know , been trying to talk to him for weeks. Not keen on replying .
His original intentions were to help but his work may have been misused by others so he has shut down his forum >
Ed's piece was most likly made by him . Others may have copied his ideas or maybe he has ? He does speak English and may be reading this .He may responds to this .

http://www.struemer-phaleristik.de/57/index.html

He does cap conversions and solid conversions and from looks of it other awards as well .
Douglas

[Darrell]

I swear I saw one exactly like the first one posted on a dealers site in the last few days before this thread started. I can't for the life of me find it anymore

[Douglas 5]

Pic

Pulled a few pictures up :
Push on metal cap to fit over existing and removed Swastika and wreath .
This can be removed if not glued or soldered , porpose is not to damage the original . Raw state if wanted .

[Douglas 5]

Pic 2 KvK 1 oS

An advanced example of his made permanant , but noticeable !

[Douglas 5]

Pic 2 of KvK 1 oS

Closeup ; Have to resize other pictures :

[Douglas 5]

Yes there are a few out there that look like that .
This all started when I was looking William Kramer's Kvk 1 , that one is all original . Have looked around at the diffrent types of reworked originals and 57 issue Re-Nazified versions , why some of these are being done , illudes logic !
The cap is of THIN matal and some times shows through imperfection from below !!

[Peter Wiking]

Douglas 5
The photo above is not from a altered/converted genuine WW2 award. That is a solid 1957 KVK. The hardware and finish indicates that it is probably made late 70's and on. Assmann, Deumer and S&L made many 1957 replacement awards in the 60's and 70's. In the mid 80's only S&L was left producing these pieces. The quality dropped dramaticly from this point (1985) and on.

Cheers.
Peter