Cased DKiG on e-Stand

[Skullhead]

I'm new to this area of collecting (medals, etc..), man what a headache it seems to get one of these authenticated!

[Chris Boonzaier]

I agree...Looks like a good one. Some years ago I found 10 Honor roll clasps to the Navy direct from the Canadian Vet who took them from stores from a German Naval base at wars end (he thought they were gold) also included in the lot were some cloth KM DKG's,cased EK1's,cased spanges etc.

I sold a few to a Canadian dealer, who in turn tried to sell one to Detlev Nieman. Detlev passed on it because it was 1 or 2mm smaller than the known originals and thought they were fake.

They were 100% original and a variation to the originals in the books.....or are the ones in the books fake as these certainly were not..

Variations do exist which I think is the case with this award.


Glenn

I dont think that is 100% correct. I had 4 of the "Canadian clasps" in the early-mid 1990's (there were lots) and they correspond 100% in every respect to the accepted, standard norm that was/is accepted in Germany.
(Could you post detailed pics of one of yours?)

I to offered one to Detlev back then. he turned it down. There was no problem with the piece, simply he did not need a stock of them. hard to sell, and not too loved. He said he was only intrested if it was in a group or had its doc (Warehouse clasps being dust gatherers then and unfortunately now, a group being an easy sell).

Best
Chris

[Glenn McInnes]

I dont think that is 100% correct. I had 4 of the "Canadian clasps" in the early-mid 1990's (there were lots) and they correspond 100% in every respect to the accepted, standard norm that was/is accepted in Germany.
(Could you post detailed pics of one of yours?)

I to offered one to Detlev back then. he turned it down. There was no problem with the piece, simply he did not need a stock of them. hard to sell, and not too loved. He said he was only intrested if it was in a group or had its doc (Warehouse clasps being dust gatherers then and unfortunately now, a group being an easy sell).

Best
Chris

Hi Chris,

I never kept any of them but the Canadian dealer told me that he (Niemann) thought they were bad because of the smaller size...I know of at least 50+ of these clasps that came from Canadian Vets,some cased,some not.. Shea,Whamond etc never questioned them..

Glenn

[Brian S]

Dietrich, this seems like one of those examples where your famous microscope might be of great value. You take a "textbook" example ( ) and Ron's and measure the catch plate, hinge plate, a few other measurements, swastika, etc. and see if you get an exact match. Wouldn't an exact, I mean exact, not like the recent "fingerprint" of the epoxies we suffered through, prove the piece was straight off the Zimmerman dies and with Zimmerman parts?

[Mike P.]

I agree Brian ...if the back plate showed the same microscopic flaws that the dotted back plate has ...that would speak volumes and be the end of it ----except for one thing.... a dotted date "Safari" has the potential of becoming another full time job for Dietich on top of his normal day time full time Job and Family !
He'd lose all his spare time ..prob get tired of the hobby ...sell off his collection and start collecting beanie babies.
Then we'd all have to chip in and send him for treatments

[Brian S]

Not a problem for Dietrich, he's been balancing the agonies of this hobby with Beanie Babies for years.

[Darrell]

Here's a couple of decent scans of one I used to own.

Obverse:



Reverse:

[Darrell]

Maker Mark:

[DavidM]

Hello

A query about the maker mark on the 'dotted' 1941 DKiGs has been raised here. For comparison I have attached five shots of '20' maker marks, all from DKiGs. Three, (top left, top right and middle left), are taken from some sold recently by a well known dealer, the other two are Rons, (bottom, middle), and Darrells, (middle, right). Sorry they are slightly blurred.

In my opinion, and of course it is only my personal opinion, there are enough similarities and likeness to say that they are from the same maker.

Regards
David

[IVAN]

Hi guys,

I must to say that Darrell's cross is very persuasive ( unfortunately Ron's photos are not so clear, I would like to see as these ones ). All requisites are respected for a light Zimmermann !

Me too I had negativ thoughts around these crosses, but my mind is open to accept a change, but we sure need real measurements and weights and to see material of black star - both examples are in mint conditions and cannot see under the black paint -

only my 2 cents...

[Mathias1703]

Dkig

And here is a piece from my collection.

100% original!!!

Mathias

[Darrell]

Hi guys,

I must to say that Darrell's cross is very persuasive ( unfortunately Ron's photos are not so clear, I would like to see as these ones ). All requisites are respected for a light Zimmermann !

Me too I had negativ thoughts around these crosses, but my mind is open to accept a change, but we sure need real measurements and weights and to see material of black star - both examples are in mint conditions and cannot see under the black paint -

only my 2 cents...

Hi Ivan .... here is the GOA from Detlev. The measurements and weight is included ...

[Brian S]

Darrell and Mathias' photos have me off the fence and jumping into the pasture. Look very convincing. Precise measurements would sure seal the deal on Dietrich's microscope!

[IVAN]

Hi Darrell,

measurements and weight are okay !

your cross is very closed as known examples of Zimmermann with "standard 1941" .


.........I would like to see a worn cross of them in my hands to see its material closed, only mint examples are there around ?

[Ron Weinand]

Ineresting

I see that I am not the only one to find veterans of the 3rd US Division that got DKiG from the castle:

<TABLE class=ev_msg_rowcolor1 style="WIDTH: 100%" cellSpacing=0 align=center><TBODY><TR><TD>"Ron, downright gorgeous... brings back fond memories,- back in 1990 I got a call in response to my ad from a retired city schoolteacher who had been in the US Army's 3d Inf. Div.,- he was with the Engineer Combat Battalion which captured the Schloss Klessheim, in Salzburg, Austria. He was serving as an MP, on detached temporary duty from his parent unit, Co.H, Heavy Weapons Co., 7th regiment, 3dInf.Div. He took many pictures of the place at the time of capture showing the heavy camouflage netting around the top of the huge building, & he took plenty of pictures of the place after the netting had been removed, with the 3d Army's insignia displayed on the front. He & many other GI's helped themselves to the plentiful supply of rare cased Nazi medals/badges which he said were located in a downstairs supply storeroom at the basement's rear. Anyway, I got an amazing hoarde of unissued perfectly mint cased pcs., among which were two cased beauties such as the one you posted. One was exactly like the one you show, & the other was a "134" marked pc. Up to that time, I'd never seen the "134" marked pc. before & was surprised at the marking being on the badge's center instead of being on the pin, as up to then, I'd only had from veterans the ones marked "1", "20" & "21". The Schloss Klessheim during the war was used as Hitler's Guesthouse for visiting foreign plenipotentiaries, & as a Convalescence Home, as Albert Speer used it as such in March 1944. Why were all these high-ranking Nazi decorations stored there? Because due to the heavy bombing in Berlin, the Berlin Ordenskanzlei was evacuated in the summer of 1944, to the Schloss Klessheim for what they thought might be safer storage. Badges of lesser degree were also kept there as inamong the biggies was a mint cased KVKI (marked "3"). In my personal opinion, these beautiful badges are very much underpriced, not only for what they are, but because of all the work that went into making them."
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