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George -
I see the problem you are referring to. I know the Internet opinion of these is they are bad which is not true. I have vet acquired one of these years ago and would have one in my collection. I will say though, I will never offer one on my web site or for sale because the general consensus is they are bad. It is too bad but that is how the masses feel about the Zimmerman with the lines in the date.
Best Wishes,
Bob -
I think the last time these were discussed it went about 100 thread pages
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Hi Darrell!
It never seemed to end and almost no-one will agree with me. That thread is the reason I will not own one of these. I will say I do not know Ron but we have several mutual friends. He is a honorable man and I firmly trust he acquired it from a vet.
Best Wishes,
BobComment
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I was the guy that brought these to light on this forum. I believe they are ok ... but many don't. It has since been re-purchased by the original owner some time ago.Originally posted by BobI
These are very well made and conform to the specs of originals bar the wreath and the date.
Reminds me of the Rounder debate. Similarities of no proof of wear, however, how can you ever see the wreath details or closeups of the date in fuzzy black and white photos?
Obviously Detlev likes them ... Bill Shea likes them ... Kai Winkler likes them ....
Seems like the only people that like them are ones that have either owned them or handled them in person.
Unfortunately, once vilified ... hard to convince anyone to take a chance at purchasing ...
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Very interesting subject and I have never heard about the "dots" theory on the dates.
Could anyone be able to find the thread on where it was discussed ?
Would love to read the comments.
PatComment
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I have direct veteran purchased two of these 20s with dots. If that isn't enough proof for the doubters, too bad for them. I had no trouble selling the first one years ago and, as it was also cased and mint, I would tend to believe that these were the last made by Zimmerman.
Both came from 3rd Division veterans from the Schloss Klessheim treasure trove, so I am convinced these were all from the same Zimmerman manufactured lot.
Ron Weinand
Weinand MilitariaLast edited by Ron Weinand; 12-02-2005, 12:44 AM.Comment
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So, the number "20" stamped on the pin is different from the accepted Zimmermann marked DKiG's? It certainaly looks different to me. Then if so, why two different markers marks?
ChetZinc stinks!Comment
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I don't know Chet. Why two different wreaths? I guess we just would have had to been there at the time.
Ron Weinand
Weinand MilitariaComment
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Fake-o-mania?
I would say that we will NEVER be sure about the production methods. Who can say for SURE that there was ONLY one stamp used?
The wreath, the stamp - there was WAR going on out there!!! If the quality of some makers could change in time why couldn't the stamp or wreath of this particular one? (replacement due to the possible damage during manufacturing? )
If we accept some badges where some mix pieces were assembled together why are we questioning the first hand purchase?
If the purchase came from vet's hands why debating the obvious fact of the item originality
- saying otherwise is simply calling the owner a liar - this is how I see it
I have posted it already before - don't we loose ourselves in fake-o-mania?Comment
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One of the strong allegations made - other than the fact that they are different from what one might call 'gospel' - was that these "dotted' crosses just "popped up recently at dealers sites", were exposed as fakes and never seen again. The explanation was that it was a test run that was 'discovered' by our resident expert!
Now, what Ron is saying dispells this 'conclusion' down to the ground. At least from 1976 on (unless one reverts back to calling members 'liars' - which I certainly will not do)!
The rejection of possibly legitimate variations is a known tool of people who don't know enough, have not seen enough and always will only fall back on "Looks different than mine, mine is good, so this is a fake".
Why not just wait, collect data and observe and learn?
DietrichComment
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Ditto to what Dietrich said.GeorgeComment
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The rejection of possibly legitimate variations is a known tool of people who don't know enough, have not seen enough and always will only fall back on "Looks different than mine, mine is good, so this is a fake".
Absolutely correct!Comment
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Thanks!
I have been called many things in this hobby: Arrogant, Opinionated, Not part of "the cartell", but never a liar. Sometimes I forget with age, but, as a retired pharmacist and a member of what has been called the most trustworthy profession by most US polls, truthfulness is my forte.
Having been in this hobby for over fifty years, buying from veterans nearly that long, doing motel buys for over twenty years and having a professional and family attachment to US veterans (my dad was a WWII veteran and a National Guard recruiter for over 26 years), I have had contact with those who brought the majority of German relics back from the homeland that are in collections today and have formed my opinions and based my knowledge from what I have observed first hand.
I have written four books (soon to be five), many magazine articles and have assisted Tom Johnson, Tom Wittman, Jack Angolia and several others and have elected to give back as much as I can to a hobby that has treated me very well and has given me great pleasure. I have also learned that regardless of what we think we know about these relics, we can never know everything nor will we. It is only forums like this one that can bring together an accumulation of knowledge that we can all share and gain from each other in order to better understand this complex hobby.
Therefore I must say thank you to those who support my opinions and to those who give me respect and know my opinion is developed from many years of learning (sometimes the hard way) about the items we all strive to acquire.
Ron Weinand
Weinand MilitariaComment
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Buy the cross not the storyComment
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