Vital Information On The Rounder RK

[eindecker2]

Truth is simply this - unchangeable! You can not alter the truth. What I see here is people finding theories, based on truths, but not absolute truth and making it what they want it to be. I agree with Andy H - lets move on

[Brian S]

A Rounder discussion has not ruined this forum, but rather the people who chose not to discuss but make it a life or death debate. Sad. Two members and their henchmen and sadly dragging down one of the best moderators by slinging dirt. Well Dave you win. You can have your dirty little playpen, the crosses forum is all yours and anyone else you can drag into suspension with you.

Sadly, those of you who 'think' Tom has fabulous evidence are mistaken. He has a close match which is not a match and must be a match in this science. But that doesn't matter to you men of facts.

Dietrich, I don't know how you do it. You're swimming upstream in polluted waters.

[eindecker2]

If ist not DER 664 UE then what is it and why is there no other 'close' matches? I am not trying to argue for one side or the other it just seems skewed in both directions. One camp says 'close enough for an outside source to stand up in court' the other side says basicaly 'its not a match to OJ Simpsons DNA' becasue of a few squigles here and there. It seems to me SEM and IR testing both have 'fudge factors' involved and if you play into the 'fudge factor' as not being anywhere remotely to a 'close match' then what will you believe? Things get into materials all the time and will skew the results of a SEM and IR test. If the other camp is so sure why not meet at the next SOS or MAX, pool all the opponents and proponents with their 'rounders' and travel to wherever this testing is done - and talk to the third party yourself while you have them SEM and IR tested and analyize the results together so that no one can 'edit' their findings. Again I will say - if we can work together on this then it can be beneficial to the hobby and the truth - if not then slug away and I will just sit back - I dont have a Rounder nor an RK of any sort, so what does it matter to me? I see good people who share a common interest ready to slander and attack one another over -.....a piece of hisotrical metal....

[Luftm40]

Brian, you reinforce my point. Nobody wants to read the back and forth bickering between collectors that either A) don't own one and think they are fake or B) do own one and want to defend it. The "data" has been explained and is there for people to read IMO. The fighting among the affected parties has become tiresome and boring. If you guys want to wage a holy war over these pieces of junk, please do it in private. There are far more interesting topics out there to explore...

[Don D.]

If ist not DER 664 UE then what is it and why is there no other 'close' matches?

Maybe production of this particular compound ceased on 8 MAY 1945. How much intellectual property was taken when the Allies occupied Germany. Missiles, rockets, jet engines, submarine technology was all looted. Maybe somewhere in all of that stuff was a bunch of compounds, including this one. German patents, if they even existed, were irrelevent. All war related materials, ideas, inventions were fair game. It wouldn't be the first time a company patented anothers product. I don't own a rounder or any KC for that matter and I too am tired of these threads that go nowhere. I also find it rediculous that we think we know everything that went on in the Reich. Chances are if this compound was developed pre-45 in the Reich, it was used elsewhere besides KCs. Perhaps there is a naval explaination???
Just an idea from someone more interested in the truth.
Don

[jujuy]

Just keep in mind "calgon" which is an official war booty...

[Brian S]

Maybe production of this particular compound ceased on 8 MAY 1945. How much intellectual property was taken when the Allies occupied Germany. Missiles, rockets, jet engines, submarine technology was all looted. Maybe somewhere in all of that stuff was a bunch of compounds, including this one. German patents, if they even existed, were irrelevent. All war related materials, ideas, inventions were fair game. It wouldn't be the first time a company patented anothers product. I don't own a rounder or any KC for that matter and I too am tired of these threads that go nowhere. I also find it rediculous that we think we know everything that went on in the Reich. Chances are if this compound was developed pre-45 in the Reich, it was used elsewhere besides KCs. Perhaps there is a naval explaination???
Just an idea from someone more interested in the truth.
Don

Exactly Don. HOW much intellectual property? The intellectual property of one of the largest companies in the world IG Farben were part and parceled out to the victors.

One of their discoveries EPOXY was one of their patents.

Because DOW did not do anything meaningful with the product until the sixties is MEANINGLESS. But that does not deter Tom from conclusions which ignore history.

Tom's conclusions consider ONLY what the US companies did with the spoils postwar.

Another example of misapplied information.

But yes Andy, I do not give a damn. Mine is not about the monetary value. But it's ALL about the monetary value and being RIGHT for the opponents. So ANDY, don't paint us with the same blush of these nasty people who now have Detlev's ear, and have not chosen to take a high road but continue further down the low road and beat it to take over the Cross Forum.

[Brian S]

(Edited -- off topic.)

OK, then edit away. But it's not about the facts, not about research, real research, it's about Tom and Dave and their henchmen finding a way in this forum to be the nastiest, call people liars, distort facts, take up acres of web real estate.

The web is a new frontier. This forum found a way to harvest thought and pioneer paths to discovery.

Dave and Tom found a way to turn that off. But their efforts at destroying thought and progress through SCIENCE has harvested a new evermore popular web site.

[George Stimson]

How many times do people have to be asked to leave their (and other's) presonalities out of these discussions?
Please stay on topic and save the meaningless back-and-forth bitching for some other place.

[Paolovski]

I have been reading this thread over the last day or two with interest...My conclusion is;
I do not own an RK,not even a fake.If this is the grief a sandwich of metal worth $$$$$'s causes,i think i'd rather stick to my EKI's and II's Thanks.

Paul

[hagwalther]

I have been reading this thread over the last day or two with interest...My conclusion is;
I do not own an RK,not even a fake.If this is the grief a sandwich of metal worth $$$$$'s causes,i think i'd rather stick to my EKI's and II's Thanks.

Paul

Well said Paul.

I've just received a nice early 1957 RK and that will do me.

As far as I'm concerned THIS forum has conviced me that the ownership of 1939 RK is just a complete waste of time and money and not worth the effort.

Yes, stay with the EK1 and EKII - you can get just as much enjoyment out of these items without coming into constant greif associated with the higher award.

I'm temped to say more but on this occassion I think I'll keep my dignity ...

.

[Paolovski]

Today i received an EKI...It's battleworn,tatty and has a broken pin.But you know what? I'm over the moon with it and tonight when i go to sleep i'll do just that...Sleep!!! I haven't been collecting longer than two months but surely it's supposed to be fun isn't it? I'm certainly having fun.
I know there's serious $'s involved here but more importantly individual reputations.There's obviously complications in ascertaining wether "rounders" are "post" fakes or not but there must be a more amicable way of coming to sort of compromise.
So,c'mon guys.sort it out!!!

An observer

Paul

[Bob Hritz]

Some of you have good points. It was not too many years ago that I was reading, on AOL forums, that all L/12 marked Knight's Crosses were fake. So it is just a matter of time before fakes become considered original, originals become considered fakes and other idiotic theories by collectors or groups that have an agenda.

It would be easy to say stick with a Juncker, but even that has not always been safe, if you believe everything you read.

It is harder to say stick with a Steinhauer and Lueck, but what was considered fake a few months ago is now original, and what was original a few months ago is considered fake. So, tread lightly with Steinhauer Knight's Crosses.

I would not own a K&Q Knights cross because I remember when they were very hard to find. Now thay are everywhere and no one can say where the dies went when K&Q went out of business. Of course, I am the only one who is cautious about K&Q's as everyone here loves them.

So, I wish I could tell you exactly what is original, but it is not determined by the item, but by the consensus of opinions or who has the loudest voice.

As for the so called Rounder, I do not know and will keep trying to ferret out the truth, along with those who have no personal agenda. There are few secrets that go uncovered and, on day, the absolute truth will be discovered. The keyword is "PATIENCE".

Bob Hritz

[Darrell]

I haven't been collecting longer than two months but surely it's supposed to be fun isn't it? I'm certainly having fun.
I know there's serious $'s involved here but more importantly individual reputations.
Paul

Paul,

You have the correct attitude towards this hobby

Unfortunately, many have lost sight of why they started collecting in the first place. It's no longer "enjoy looking" and "sharing" other's knowledge that matters.

It's their goal to have the Gold Star placed beside their names as the guy who proved this or that to be original.

It's funny these same guys bash other respected authors yet have ZERO literary works atrributed to themselves

P.S. I have no horse in the race as I never have or will own an RK whatever maker it is ....

[George Stimson]

This thread isn't going to go anywhere positive. The data is here. Make of it what you will.