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**Pascal H.** · 10-21-2007, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Stive View Post

IMO this type of Krim shield is not original. It has never been founded in Russia – not in museums, not in private collections, not during archeological investigations. This type of Krim shield is known only by European and American collectors. Also this type of shield always has strange cloth underlay and damages of surface.

So you know ALL the Krim shields found in Russia?

KR
Pascal

**alessio cammelli** · 10-21-2007, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Pascal Huysmans View Post

So you know ALL the Krim shields found in Russia?

KR
Pascal

.....

**Filip** · 10-21-2007, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by fic65 View Post

.....

Alessio,

The Russian ( that includes Ukraine, White Russia , etc.) military archeology community is a pretty close knit one . Various aspects of this activity are discussed on several large dedicated forums. A lot of related information is exchanged. New finds are showcased and data based. Expeditions organized .
You should also keep in mind that before the collapse of the USSR, ground digging was one of the major sources of German military collectables. Narvik , Kuban, Krim, Demjansk were and still are found there.
I trust and respect Stive’s opinion , who is one of Russia’s top German militaria experts. Unfortunately , I have much less trust in your friend’s expertise on this subject, especially after I had learnt that not 1 but 3! ground dug shields of this kind ended up in his collection at once.

Regards
Filip

PS This is my post # 200!

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**alessio cammelli** · 10-22-2007, 08:41 AM

Yes...we know about Russia...great collector, great hunters, and great fakers...unfortunality.....

Hi Filip, you have less trust not only in my friend's expertise but also in our moderator's expertise.........strange.....it seems that you are happy to have 200 posts on W.A......why does?
regards

Ale

P.S.

Hi guys....this is my last post here....I would have opinion about a shield....after this interesting threads I have to say that I am now convinced it is a good one, some of you think this is a fake, some others start to collect stamps, some new members have had a bit of arrogance posting their first posts, by the way I want to thanks all of you for the time you lost and expecially the Moderator....a great one....

thanks to all

Alessio

**tgn** · 10-22-2007, 10:03 AM

My problem with this shield is the side prongs and back plate. The side prongs are not the normal German type, which are tapered and come to a small rounded head. These prongs look more like the prongs commonly encountered on US tin toys - straight parrallel sides that come to a very blunt rounded end. The backplate is also not the normal German type, This plate has rectangular notches punched into the plate, whereas the normal German ones just have indentations in the sides where the prongs are to be bent. You may dismiss this as just a manufacturer variation, but I don't. I have handled hundreds of shields and driver proficieny badges in my collecting life, and have never seen prongs like these "dug" examples. Even the panzer skulls with side prongs have the same type of prongs, whereas some of the fakes have this "dug" shield type.

If this is a special manufacturer variation, it would have shown up somewhere in the last 40+ years - not recently "discovered" in excavations.

BTW, I do also collect stamps...Tom

**Filip** · 10-22-2007, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by fic65 View Post

Yes...we know about Russia...great collector, great hunters, and great fakers...unfortunality.....

Hi Filip, you have less trust not only in my friend's expertise but also in our moderator's expertise.........strange.....it seems that you are happy to have 200 posts on W.A......why does?
regards

Ale

P.S.

Hi guys....this is my last post here....I would have opinion about a shield....after this interesting threads I have to say that I am now convinced it is a good one, some of you think this is a fake, some others start to collect stamps, some new members have had a bit of arrogance posting their first posts, by the way I want to thanks all of you for the time you lost and expecially the Moderator....a great one....

thanks to all

Alessio

" As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it.

Mahatma Gandhi "

**Stive** · 10-22-2007, 01:41 PM

I can tell that all types of Krim shield which have ever been founded in Russia are identified as original in all online militaria forums. But strange Krims (such this) has never been founded. Maybe this type was produced in late period of war in very small amount?

**Pascal H.** · 10-22-2007, 03:14 PM

So the criteria to become an original has to be that it should be found in Russia?

I remember the zinc Cholm shield with the 4 prongs which was on the Russia fora declared as to be a definite fake. Now what a coincidence that excaltly this type of shield is found by Stijn David with a German glider pilot vet…..

As for the so called fake Krim shield in this thread it is funny that Stive mentions that this could be a late production shield. At this time I’m under the impression that this type of shield could well be a late production shield made by Maedicke.

KR
Pascal

**tgn** · 10-22-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Stive View Post

Maybe this type was produced in late period of war in very small amount?

Late period - like 2006 maybe??

Still don't believe it...Tom

**besslein** · 10-22-2007, 07:21 PM

dear frind this shild in question is a good one,this krims posted here with RAD cloth are not real RAD but rusty fildgray cloth,near 20 years ago was finde in my city Breslau a bunker with near 10 000(or more) of bages cuff titles and blanco urkunden
I see now over the world this item,but I know this stuff very well,and all here posted "salty" krims on brown cloth(DIRTY FROM RUST) are from this pleace.

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**alessio cammelli** · 10-22-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Filip View Post

As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it.

Mahatma Gandhi

forced to post my very last shot here

.....

Filip...

Strange that also Steve now has some doubts about the shield.....

our moderator's opinion is much than anything for me....

and so I'm forced to remake you my old questions.....

it seems to me you was happy for your 200 posts here on W.A....why does?

sorry guys....my very last post

thanks to all

**besslein** · 10-22-2007, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Stive View Post

IMO this type of Krim shield is not original. It has never been founded in Russia – not in museums, not in private collections, not during archeological investigations. This type of Krim shield is known only by European and American collectors. Also this type of shield always has strange cloth underlay and damages of surface.

stive with this theory stay away from german item that is NOT found in mother russia

**alessio cammelli** · 10-22-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by besslein View Post

dear frind this shild in question is a good one,this krims posted here with RAD cloth are not real RAD but rusty fildgray cloth,near 20 years ago was finde in my city Breslau a bunker with near 10 000(or more) of bages cuff titles and blanco urkunden
I see now over the world this item,but I know this stuff very well,and all here posted "salty" krims on brown cloth(DIRTY FROM RUST) are from this pleace.

Yes Besslein....I already know that....but this thread took a strange way so I decided don't to post also this info.........

a lot of people to collect stamps now...let's go!

Ale

**besslein** · 10-22-2007, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by fic65 View Post

Yes Besslein....I already know that....but this thread took a strange way so I decided don't to post also this info.........

a lot of people to collect stamps now...let's go!

Ale

your krim is a good one for 1000000000% only pity that is not found in Stalingrad

**Filip** · 10-22-2007, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by besslein View Post

your krim is a good one for 1000000000% only pity that is not found in Stalingrad

"Thanks for the post Mr Pascal......confirming your thoughts I have now some new infos about this shield......It was found, with some others, in some german's graves in the east front....may be terrific, I know, but probably this is the thrue...

Alessio "

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