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    #16
    I wouldn't personally bother with the mid to late period at all, too confusing I think?
    And lumping everything from 1970 to 2014 in the same category doesn't seem right to me??
    But that's only my thoughts, everybody has their own, which is why this idea maybe wont work.
    A quick point on the double catch.... only a small number of certain medals and badges had the double catch, so I don't think they should have a period of their own!!
    Told you everyone will never agree!!!
    -Nigel
    sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

    Comment

      #17
      Originally posted by Norm F View Post
      "Very early", 1957-1960: round-wire main pin, solid block hinge, narrow flat-wire catch

      "Early", 1960-1963: narrow-topped main pin, solid block hinge, narrow flat-wire catch

      "Early to Mid" (transitional), 1963-1965: narrow-topped or wide-topped main pin, solid block hinge, double-wire catch, +/- dome head hinge pin

      "Mid", 1965-1968: wide-topped main pin, solid block hinge, narrow flat-wire catch, +/- dome head hinge pin

      "Late", >1968: wide-topped main pin, hollow hinge, wide flat-wire catch, +/- dome head hinge

      Best regards,
      ---Norm
      That its exactly era factsheet

      Comment

        #18
        Hi All,

        Looks like we have a good, productive discussion going here!

        @Nigel: Maybe you could clip off the posts pertaining to the S&L pin back timeline from this thread into a new thread. Maybe call it S&L pin back timeline or something. I do not want to "hi jack" Brig's thread, however I do believe this is a worthy and needed discussion.

        A couple quick points:

        * I think we will not get everyone to agree 100%, however a consensus, I think is very reachable regarding this matter.

        * S&L is probably the most "collected" 57er producer if for no other reason than the number of pieces produced in this era (and the variety) appears to far outnumber those produced by others. Yes, Deumer probably has an overall quality edge. Most 57er collectors probably have more S&L produced pieces in their collections than any other producer.

        * Maybe 85%-90% of all 57 era S&L produced pin back pieces do fit nicely into the proposed timeline framework.

        * There will always be pieces that are exceptions and have mixed hardware, etc. These "white crows" are interesting to find and add to the enjoyment of the hobby.

        * Having a time line frame work will be beneficial to new 57er collectors. Including descriptive images will help as well.

        * I do think it is important to separate mid and late pieces as this is when the block moved from solid to open. Seems like 1968 is the year most mentioned for this break point.

        * I agree that lumping everything past late into a modern category might be too broad. I do not have enough knowledge in this era to offer any proposal. Help please........

        * This discussion applies to S&L pin back pieces which I think includes badges, spanges, DKs, and the EK1. Am I missing anything? Everything else, RKs, EK2, medals, etc. are a separate discussion.

        * The images which show the full obverse, full reverse, and a close up of both the clasp and block are perfect as guides!

        Maybe we can "massage" the below proposal a little more and then put a proposal to a vote. In the end, each can choose their own path and I am just trying to bring some clarity to this often confusing area of the 57er hobby.

        Sorry for the lengthy verbiage!

        Best,

        Jeff

        Comment

          #19
          Originally posted by Nigel N View Post
          A quick point on the double catch.... only a small number of certain medals and badges had the double catch, so I don't think they should have a period of their own!!
          Hi Nigel,

          This is fun!

          It seems that almost every time a double catch piece is posted there's a comment suggesting early to mid-1960s (often from yourself!). It's use is clearly after the "very early" wire pin era and is most often combined with the narrow-topped main pin. But the KVK1 shows it appears also with the wide-topped main pin - hence "early to mid".

          It actually appears on a fairly wide selection of awards shown in this compilation, probably over a limited time period which is why I thought it merited it's own "transitional" category.

          Best regards,
          ---Norm
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by Norm F View Post
            "Very early", 1957-1960: round-wire main pin, solid block hinge, narrow flat-wire catch

            "Early", 1960-1963: narrow-topped main pin, solid block hinge, narrow flat-wire catch

            "Early to Mid" (transitional), 1963-1965: narrow-topped or wide-topped main pin, solid block hinge, double-wire catch, +/- dome head hinge pin

            "Mid", 1965-1968: wide-topped main pin, solid block hinge, narrow flat-wire catch, +/- dome head hinge pin

            "Late", 1968-1970's: wide-topped main pin, hollow hinge, wide flat-wire catch, +/- dome head hinge pin
            Here's an illustration of the above scheme (for now I've left in the optional "early-mid" category).
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Norm F; 10-16-2014, 09:37 AM.

            Comment

              #21
              I think from the point of clarity, it might be best to start a whole new thread on this, and then everyone can see it and have their say?
              I think that will be the fairest way!!!!!!!
              -Nigel
              sigpic 57ers...."The Devil Is In The Detail"

              Comment

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