E-Bay Hall Of Shame!!!

[Nigel N]

Hi Mathijs!
I am honestly not sure on the provenance on this, and have already discuused it with a fellow collector!
One thing I am pretty sure about, is the etui, it is a modern made fake IMO!
The round cornered cases do exist in 57 form, but this one shows no age, and has the "give away" of the angled corners on the card strip around the inside edge of the lower tray, originals are always perfectly rounded to match the edge of the case itself!
Also "silk" lid liner and hinge cover are the wrong type of material etc.
So, if the etui is wrong, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the group, also way over-priced for me, even if it was all original and vet owned!!
-Nigel

[Patrick08/15]

Buy the award not the story

Very nice KC but totaly overpriced. For me 500€ not more.

[Steve 5]

For me the Gunthar Rall grouping is genuine, but is, as has been stated, wildly overpriced !........it is known within the collecting circles that Rall sold off most of his awards before his death, that would be around 2006, he died in 2009 of a heart attack at the ripe old age of 91 !
Again it is known that he marked most of the items with his signature, cases, ribbons on medals, inside uniform items etc.....they went to an auction house where they were found separate homes....you are all quite right, do not buy on the strength of the story, but it is quite a different if the story can be substantiated....the box, a modern copy was probably added by the last collector/dealer owner, more to protect and keep the RK in, than to add to the value of group.
The signed ribbon period or modern is , for me , a very real part of the Rall group.
Most of Rall's awards were taken upon surrender and in his autobiography he states he had to obtain replacements, as he had none (that can only mean 57ers) as he was part of Konrad Ardenaurs funeral cortege and was instructed to wear full medals......this was 1963, so a "C" frame RK fits perfectly into this time frame....as do the Souval O/S device, great information for Souval collectors, evidence of wear by a veteran !
So perhaps a little research before writing off a so called story.......this grouping does not deserve to be in the hall of shame !
Oh and by the way I did/have made an offer on the group...substantially less than the asking price, I doubt I will get it.
The seller also has a tunic allegedly Rall's, this to IMO is genuine, but is again a ridiculous price.
Prost ! Steve.

[Tom B]

For me the Gunthar Rall grouping is genuine, but is, as has been stated, wildly overpriced !........it is known within the collecting circles that Rall sold off most of his awards before his death, that would be around 2006, he died in 2009 of a heart attack at the ripe old age of 91 !
Again it is known that he marked most of the items with his signature, cases, ribbons on medals, inside uniform items etc.....they went to an auction house where they were found separate homes....you are all quite right, do not buy on the strength of the story, but it is quite a different if the story can be substantiated....the box, a modern copy was probably added by the last collector/dealer owner, more to protect and keep the RK in, than to add to the value of group.
The signed ribbon period or modern is , for me , a very real part of the Rall group.
Most of Rall's awards were taken upon surrender and in his autobiography he states he had to obtain replacements, as he had none (that can only mean 57ers) as he was part of Konrad Ardenaurs funeral cortege and was instructed to wear full medals......this was 1963, so a "C" frame RK fits perfectly into this time frame....as do the Souval O/S device, great information for Souval collectors, evidence of wear by a veteran !
So perhaps a little research before writing off a so called story.......this grouping does not deserve to be in the hall of shame !
Oh and by the way I did/have made an offer on the group...substantially less than the asking price, I doubt I will get it.
The seller also has a tunic allegedly Rall's, this to IMO is genuine, but is again a ridiculous price.
Prost ! Steve.

Hello guys, I can only add that the Oaks & Swords he showed to me were NOT Souvals. The 57 RK in this photo looks like what I saw, but the Oaks & Swords were also S&L made without any doubt. That was in 1981 at his home. Tom

[esquiroz]

The sold item on Andreas Thies

As you say, the orders were taken away when being captured. Nevertheless, Andreas Thies in his catalogue numer 31 offred a lot of awards that shoul be the originals from Gunther Rall. How can it be if the were stolen while being captured and not having bought any more TR ones afterwards? I have my doubts even on those sold on Thies.

[Matthieu]

Hi Steve,

All in all, the vendor does not give waterproof guarantee its 100% genuine.
One must admit that the the modern ribbon & case don't speak in its favour.
An unworn length of modern ribbon with signature ... provenance to ownership ???

One can think of this group what one wants .... I shall not be buying .

Mathijs

[Nigel N]

Do we have any more info on the 57 Rall group when it first went up for sale?
Did one person buy the whole group, or at least the pieces shown here, or did they all end up in different collections??
I first thought the group was ok, and probably Rall's, apart from the fake etui, but now with the information from Tom about the OLS, we know they are wrong too!!
It would seem very strange to me, that someone would split the RK and OLS, and replace the original S&L set for a Souval?? Makes no sense! So, we have to ask ourselves, if even the RK is original???
Maybe the ribbon is the only original item? even then, it appears later, so could just be a ribbon autographed by Rall, in the same way he might autograph a photo for a collector, rather than his own, original ribbon? Either way, its possible that someone has used the ribbon to form the centrepiece of this group, and added various pieces to it, to form what we see now??
Without solid provenance, I think the attribution of the entire group is in doubt???
Any thoughts guys???
-Nigel

[Tom B]

IMO it's a totally put together bunch of items. The seller is trying to make big bucks. The RK & the photos IMO are the ONLY thing worth s damn. Tom

[Steve 5]

Epilogue:- Gents, I have just been informed by E-Bay that the Rall RK set has been sold......for 1,500 Euro.
Prost ! Steve.

[Tom B]

Epilogue:- Gents, I have just been informed by E-Bay that the Rall RK set has been sold......for 1,500 Euro.
Prost ! Steve.

God all mighty ! Unbelievable ! Some poor fool will now be stuck with it ! Thanks Steve

[novara]

Let me reflect to an older comment. Somebody said that if somebody sells medals on eBay instead of their own website, it is in itself a bad sign.

I know it is not my duty to convince anybody here but let me give you some information which may change this opinion.

I have to say that I don't like eBay however I have nearly 2500 items listed there.

If you compare the number of the visitors on eBay or a private website, the numbers speak for themselves. Example: I have cca 30.000 clicks on the eBay in a month, my own website brings only 1500-2000.....

To run an eBay shop is much more expensive than a website, the commission is 8-10% and the bastards now charge this after the postage fee as well.... I pay £5-6000 in a year.

There are some advantages of an eBay shop: ou can list in bulk even offline, it is not possible if you run a normal website, they give Buyer Protection, etc..

Most importantly you can reach people who are just browsing there, based on my experiences more than half of the buyers are not collectors but people who are simply impressed by a nice photo, medal, whatever.

Anyway I am not here to advertise them because if you imagine, how difficult is to make a totally stupid agent understand that the Hindenburg Cross (Honour Cross) is not a Nazi item, however it was introduced in 1934.... anyway, they give me heart attack on every week but there is not alternative...

My only motive was with this reply to draw the attention that eBay is not only "Hall of Shame", however it is flooded with crazy stuff.

I've been trying to convince them to create two new categories at the "Collectables" section, such as "Genuine" and "Copy" or something, they normally don't even respond. Pity because it would help a lot...

[Pink]

Another to avoid..loveisallaround12

loveisallaround12...sad to say, another Canadian site who sometimes even says it is a reproduction, but many like this Flea-bay item 360934793491 are very typical of their listings...they use enough graphic verbiage to hit on peoples searches and do not perfectly describe what they are flogging...almost looks like the debbiespleasures listings......stay away..!!

Pink...

[Pink]

apologies to debbiespleasures...meant to say minniespleasures......

[Tom B]

Ebay is............just Ebay........shop at your own risk

[novara]

How about this? Sexymusa (like the name) is selling this on ebay.co.uk. I have sent a message to the seller about the originality of this award, I have received a welcoming "YOU HAVE BEEN BLOCKED" message. Very nice reply anyway.