Wound Badge Comparison

[Mike Yokum]

I recently acquired two wound badges, one Silver and one Gold, by an unknown maker (unknown to me anyway) that I want to share with you. At first glance the thinking would likely be mid-produced S&L particularly because of the pin style, but on closer examination the badges themselves are quite different and most definitely from different dies.

I've taken pics of the two badges along side early, small round pin S&L badges for comparison and I've marked some of the obvious differences like the convex area of the helmet rim on the badges by the unknown maker, the two missing pebbles at the very top, just under the laurel leaves, the differently shaped handle on the sword on the left, etc., etc. Clearly these are from a different die. Other differences? The new badges are nicely burnished unlike "standard" S&L's and the detail is MUCH more crisp as well.

The dimensions are as follows:
S&L GWB - 30.18g / 36.87X44.30X3.72

??? GWB - 25.03g / 37.22X44.78X2.99
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S&L SWB - 30.00g / 36.72X44.46X3.88

??? SWB - 26.42g / 37.24X44.82X3.08

Clear differences between the two types from different makers and clear similarities from the within the family from the same maker.

Any thoughts as to the maker? If they are mid-made S&L using a new die, why would S&L suddenly begin burnishing Wound Badges?

[Mike Yokum]

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[Nigel N]

Hi Mike! Great badges, and great photo's, but i'm not sure if i can help much!
As you said, going by the hardware, they should both be S & L, one early, one slightly later, bu its becoming obvious that S & L provided parts, if not entire badges to other makers.
Its hard to judge the differences sometimes, as a thicker coat of paint on one badge could obscure some details when compared to a badge with a thinner coat allowing more detail to show thru!!
With WB's i think one of the best ways to tell different dies etc. is to look closely at the pattern of dots, it'll probably drive you crazy but might shed some light???
Get that magnifying glass out Mike, and good luck with your detective work!!
-Nigel

[Seewolf]

IMO the badges are Deumers. They have the typical characteristics of the Deumer produced ones, except the setup. Sorry for only short reply.... i am at work.

Stijn made a great comparison between S&L and Deumer WB at the GCA.

[Nigel N]

Thats really interesting Rudiger, so you think the badges are both Deumer, and they got the hardware from someone else, either S & L, or another unknown maker, i must admit, i've never studied Deumers WB's or compared them to S & L's!!
One thing i find puzzling, is the badge with what i would consider the later setup, appears to have the better finish and quality!
Is that right Mike???????
-Nigel00corn.gif

[Mike Yokum]

Thanks Rudiger,

Stijn contacted me this morning concerning the comparison he did over on the GCA in which Deumer was determined to be the maker. Still good to have this thread here as a reference, I suppose. Interesting that Deumer apparently used S&L supplied hardware. Seems most herstellers did at some point in their manufacturing run. I'm curious if any other herstellers, perhaps used S&L hardware the entire time they produced awards.

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Nigel,

Definitely true that the badges that would normally be considered later due to hardware are much crisper in detail, have a better finish and overall quality, typical of Deumer work.

[Nigel N]

Hi Mike, i think the use of S & L hardware by other makers is only just becoming known, this is what has caused problems in the past with badges that were'nt S & L, being thought of as such because of the hardware!!
It might turn out that S & L produced parts/hardware for most of the other makers at one time or another, i think your Glider badge from David could be one example! Assmann seemed to use S & L parts in most of their awards, we've still got lots to learn on this!!!!ikn_chai.gif
-Nigel

[Seewolf]

Don´t forget the rumour that S&L bought the Deumer dies after they stopped producing. That could explain the typical S&L hardware on this pieces.

If rumour or thruth....we need an evidence in any way but how

[Mike Yokum]

Don´t forget the rumour that S&L bought the Deumer dies after they stopped producing. That could explain the typical S&L hardware on this pieces.

If rumour or thruth....we need an evidence in any way but how

Then a question remains. If these are S&L work, why would they begin to burnish badges from the mid-produced period or if not mid, at least after their earliest work? This line of thinking makes me think they are indeed Deumer work with hardware purchased from S&L.

BTW-The SWB in Stijn's comparison is mow mine and is used in this thread!

[LuckyLuudje]

I agree with Stijn and think that the nicer wb is a Deumer and it is a nice badge
I doesn't happen often that I find the Deumers more beautifull than the S&L's.

I am not convinced that the hardware is made by S&L.
Is there proof for the statement that the hardware is MADE by S&L and provided others? Or is it just an opinion?

My collecting field is actually wartime EK's and I see mainly starting collectors make the mistakes to determine the maker by it's hardware.
Don't forget that many herstellers didn't make the hardware themselves and ordered them from a third party.

[Mike Yokum]

I agree with Stijn and think that the nicer wb is a Deumer and it is a nice badge
I doesn't happen often that I find the Deumers more beautifull than the S&L's.

In the case of these badges, defintely nicer than S&L in every way.

I am not convinced that the hardware is made by S&L.
Is there proof for the statement that the hardware is MADE by S&L and provided others? Or is it just an opinion?

The hardware is typical of hardware we have all associated with S&L work as it is seen on many of their awards. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone said definitively that the hardware came from S&L. Words like "apparently" and "I think" were used because it is not an absolute truth yet.
Is there solid proof these came Deumer or is that an opinion also? If solid proof please share it so I can learn.

My collecting field is actually wartime EK's and I see mainly starting collectors make the mistakes to determine the maker by it's hardware.
Don't forget that many herstellers didn't make the hardware themselves and ordered them from a third party.

I freely admit I am a beginning collector and have MUCH to learn. That is exactly the reason I participate in this forum.