Wearing of WW2 US helmet strap.

[Harvey A]

Hi Gary,

I wore the M1 for about 20 years and only used the kevlar a short time. Like Jim, I found the M1 much more comfortable. Originally the sweatband and chinstraps were the only adjustable components. Later the nape strap was modified so that it was very adjustable and rested much lower on your head; almost to the top of your neck. This in my opinion made the helmet much more stable. With a properly fitted and broken-in sweatband and nape strap, the helmet was comfortable enough. In some circumstances we were allowed to wear the liner by itself; that was NICE!

I never modified the helmet (other than adjustments) for comfort, but in really cold weather the army had an OD woolen head cover, somewhat like a ski mask, that we could wear under the helmet. Of course, the sweatband and nape would have to be adjusted accordingly.

Harvey

[101combatvet]

Correct, but motorcycle helmets, golf clubs, and SCUBA is not related to this thread.

"At any rate blast creates injuries from two factors baro pressure created by overpressure from the explosive forces and shrapnel. If you are close enough to a large blast the baro trauma is instantaneous and the helmet would not make a difference anyway."

The point here is that a break-away chinstrap will "probably" not save your ass.

These statistics refer to casulaties resulting from building collapse due to overpressure, they are typically cited when discussing the effects of static atmospheric overpressure generated by the detonation of a thermo-nuclear weapon. It's not the 3.5 PSI to 7 PSI overpressure that kills but the collapse of the building; the effects of which vary with the degree of overpressure and the posture of the occupants.

That the human body can survive 15 lbs of overpressure is easily seen in diving. Fresh water weighs 0.433 pounds per column foot. Therefore a diver need only descend to a depth of 34.64 feet to achive 15 psi overpressure. Some people dive deeper than that without any gear.

When I was in the 101st we wore the regular chinstraps fastened over the back of the steel pot, but we had an extra chinstrap, similar to those used on an M1-C para helmet that we wore fastened over our chin whenever we were maneuvering. The regular chinstrap, when fastened under your jaw, was very uncomfortable and looked really dorky. Interestingly, my first helmet, issued in the early 70s, was a fixed bale M1.

[blinky]

Just out of curiosity, how are you such an expert in this?

eric

[101combatvet]

Just out of curiosity, how are you such an expert in this?

eric

check your messages.

[G.F.C.]

Gary....

A close friend was a former Korean-war era artillery man.

He described his Battery CO as a bald-headed guy who added a foam rubber "falsie" to the inside of his helmet - worn nipple side down

[Jean-Loup]

"At any rate blast creates injuries from two factors baro pressure created by overpressure from the explosive forces and shrapnel. If you are close enough to a large blast the baro trauma is instantaneous and the helmet would not make a difference anyway."

First off it would be nice to reference your quotes, so that we can all look at the source. In this case the source is obviously of quite low level. I was talking to a guy who was working for devellopment of ballistic cloathing for deminers... If I remember correctly, blasts can cause at least 4 types of injuries, not 2 types:
-from overpressure (damage to lungs, eardrums...)
-from schrapnel
-from the heat
-from the victim being projected

Anyways, as a reliable source I posted earlier on clearly shows: some deminer helmets have elastic chinstraps on their helmets to avoid neck injuries in the event of an explosion. That should have been enaugh to end the discution right there, but apparently you overlooked that, prefering to take refuge in insults and barracks BS types of behaviour to proove your point...

Here is the quote and source again:

http://www.mech.uwa.edu.au/jpt/demin...t-support.html
The chin strap might cause a broken neck if a blast wave catches the visor and pushes the helmet off the head.<o =""></o>
<o =""></o>The strap consists of a length of elastic "bungee" cord secured to the deminers belt in the middle of the back.

[Bob Hritz]

No matter how well adjusted the liner band, you cannot run, bearing an arm or equipment, with your helmet unbuckled. Few photos are taken in the heat of battle and I would think the disconnected strap was worn when the risk of imminent conflict was less. It takes 2 hands to attach and secure the M1 chin strap.

The helmet was not a ballistic resistant device, it was to protect the head from falling or blowing debris.

I like the liner system of the Fritz US helmet. Because they did not want the flare, in the reverse (too German looking), the rear skirt is slightly too long and the helmet rides down, in the prone position. the newly designed Kevlar Fritz helmet will have a shorter rear skirt that is curved so the back shoulders do not push the helmet forward, in the prone position. Either design, the Kevlar helmet's greatest complaint is heat retention. It must be tough for the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines in the Middle East.

I agree that concussion will damage internal organs as it is tearing the helmet away. Sadly, close is good enough when dealing with incomming artillery.

Bob Hritz

[101combatvet]

"Anyways, as a reliable source I posted earlier on clearly shows: some deminer helmets have elastic chinstraps on their helmets to avoid neck injuries in the event of an explosion. That should have been enaugh to end the discution right there, but apparently you overlooked that, prefering to take refuge in insults and barracks BS types of behaviour to proove your point...

[/COLOR]

"Some people are never wrong ."

Have you ever been in an explosion? Ever been near one? Ever see whats left?

Your illustration shows a dead guy with a helmet that was blown across the street.

[blinky]

check your messages.

Wow, well, believe me I am flattered but I am already involved in a stable long term relationship. Good luck though!

Just kidding.....

Come on guys, group hug. No one is going to change each others minds about this issue. Time to move on.

eric

[Jean-Loup]

" Have you ever been in an explosion? Ever been near one? Ever see whats left?"

No for the first two parts, and yes for the third... and what does that have to do with the discution? Since I have never been in an explosion, it means that the guys doing research on creating demining equipement are wrong?
You have very serious flaws in your logic.

Since you were in the army for your whole life, does that mean you know everything about everything? That seems to be your main point: "I was in the army, and near many explosions, so I know everything". How sad.

JL

[101combatvet]

The helmet was not a ballistic resistant device, it was to protect the head from falling or blowing debris.

Bob Hritz

All valid points... one very interesting caveat is that US Army tests during WW2 relieved that the M1 provided the least ballistic protection when tested against the Japanese and German helmets.

[Luftm40]

I'm showing my years, but I have worn the steel pot and the kevlar in both of it's configurations during my career. The newest kevlar I have used under combat conditions in Iraq. I wore the steel pot when I was in the Marine Corps and remember it fondly. I detested the first generation kevlar...heavy, hot and I always felt like I was wearing a bucket on my head, as the flanges hung down into my peripheral vision. I also found it difficult to adjust the straps such that it didn't slide around when running, diving etc...even w/ the chin strap fastened. The new kevlar w/ the 4 point harness is a vast improvement. It sits nicely on your head and is secure. The new helmets have a velcro pad system in the liner vice the web harness. These can be hot in a place like Iraq, but are more comfortable. Personal communication systems and helmet mounted optics are now pretty much standard though, and offer a new array of challenges. The optics, which flip down in front of the wearer's eyes, require the addition of a lead counterweight on the back of the helmet to balance things out. It's a very heavy contraption when fitted out. The comms headsets require the liner pads to be adjusted just so, or things get very uncomfortable.

oh,btw...when I was in the Marine Corps I distinctly remember being taught to unfasten my chin strap if caught in an artillery or mortar barrage. Someone apparently thought concussion was a problem, although I doubt any of my DIs were physicists

[pete]

.

Here you go guys, me and JL have gone scientific.

There are in fact concussion considerations but only given certain, and not all, criteria. As a blanket policey IMO troops just left it undone and may not have even known the full vairables at which this occurs or wouldnt matter, as well as tactical close combat applications. As with many Militaries, rumours and old stories permeate and carry on for years, but nobody would want to test out if it works or doesnt work on their own body.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=292928


Best,

Pete

[Mr.Jerry D]

wow,
I can't believe I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading all of this

But as a point, I think the 15lbs of pressure is linear pressure and not atmposheric PSI. Like with 15lb test fishing line.

It really doesn't take much to pop one of those connectors off. I'd bet I could knock it off some ones head without a baseball bat. I have had guys come up behind me and pop it off just by pulling on the brim.

[pete]

.

Interesting observation jerry,

IMO this is one other advantage of the ball type clip at least in the close combat scenario. I know i was taught how to do that when it comes to disabling an enemy by using his strapped helmet against him. However i was never told about concussions ripping my helmet off and most all modern helmets have a solid fastened clip or dot snap and are worn fastened. If one was in the position where incoming heavy ordnance was landing the last thing you would want do IMO is expose any of your head any body or look at the blast while in the prone or a trench to the Frag/blast and shockwave. If you were standing and totally exposed it would be end of story anyway let alone a broken neck in youre in the kill zone caught standing and unprotected helmet strapped or not, even wearing body armour in some cases. However with that i have learned other things from local veterans who have been in long wars including close combat that i did not know before or knew only tiny kernals of the real truth about from normal instruction in peacetime, although they were great instructors they didnt have that experience and between wars i think alot of info sometimes gets lost or forgotten and the same lessons relearned and re recorded or info dug out again.

Best,

Pete