Older katana find

[rajko84]

I picked up this one last week. I know the blade is not the best but I still like the sword. It is not signed, but it does have two holes at a tang. Tsuba has which looks like red paint on it, most of it it is already gone but some of it is still there. Any info would be appreciated.
Thank you
Regards RD

[rajko84]

1

[rajko84]

3

[nickn]

May we have photos of the blade especially the tip

[rajko84]

2

[rajko84]

4

[rajko84]

May we have photos of the blade especially the tip

Are they good enough?

[BruceP]

Well, maybe I can stir some discussion on this one. I don't study older blades, so someone please jump in and correct me if I get off base.

To me, the blade doesn't look that old. The patina on the nakago is no more than WWII aged. While the corrosion on the blade may hide the hamon, I can't see any at all. I like that style blade, and it does appear to be Japanese, but to my very inexperienced eye, it seems more like a single-steel mass-produced blade.

The fittings are peculiar to me, but I don't study civilian fittings. Attractive saya, but I can't get over that ashi/haikan (belt hanger). Why would an "old" sword come with a single, tachi-hanging, ring? And one that looks like something made for the war? Unless this ring was added during the war to be covered by a leather cover, which is possible, and the leather is gone.

My last, and most likely wrong, thought is that the red paint on the tsuba is likely a Bubba-job, post war. I'm not aware of older tsuba that were painted red like that.

I know you said you enjoy this piece, so forgive my complaints (and in fact, I'm not complaining, just tossing out my thoughts on it to generate discussion). As collectors, the only thing that matters, in the end, is that it is something we enjoy! I have 8 Type 95's that I thoroughly enjoy while there are many out there that can't comprehend why I would!

[rajko84]

Well, maybe I can stir some discussion on this one. I don't study older blades, so someone please jump in and correct me if I get off base.

To me, the blade doesn't look that old. The patina on the nakago is no more than WWII aged. While the corrosion on the blade may hide the hamon, I can't see any at all. I like that style blade, and it does appear to be Japanese, but to my very inexperienced eye, it seems more like a single-steel mass-produced blade.

The fittings are peculiar to me, but I don't study civilian fittings. Attractive saya, but I can't get over that ashi/haikan (belt hanger). Why would an "old" sword come with a single, tachi-hanging, ring? And one that looks like something made for the war? Unless this ring was added during the war to be covered by a leather cover, which is possible, and the leather is gone.

My last, and most likely wrong, thought is that the red paint on the tsuba is likely a Bubba-job, post war. I'm not aware of older tsuba that were painted red like that.

I know you said you enjoy this piece, so forgive my complaints (and in fact, I'm not complaining, just tossing out my thoughts on it to generate discussion). As collectors, the only thing that matters, in the end, is that it is something we enjoy! I have 8 Type 95's that I thoroughly enjoy while there are many out there that can't comprehend why I would!

Bruce
That is not a problem. It looks like they added the ring. And they removed the other piece of scabbard where they normally put a cord through. So I was thinking that this piece got pushed into service. I will post pictures of that also.
Thank you

[GHP]

I think the nakako is older than Showa era; the brown color, coupled with the groove that goes way down, plus the second mekugi-ana. It appears to me to be suriage -- shortened.

The fittings are handachi -- i.e., "half-tachi" sytle. This sort of fitting was popular in the early 1900s ~ 1930s, though my time-line might be off.

I see grain in the steel shown in photo #4 (post #6); though I cannot see the hamon.

I think the both original haikan have been removed; the image is not clear enough, but I think I see residue of where the lower haikan used to be. I suggest that both original haikan (which would have matched the semegane -- scabbard ring--) were removed and replaced with the single WW2-era haikan, then the original lacquered scabbard was covered in a leather combat cover. I think this method of lacquer is called Tatake Inden nuri, but I'm not certain -- it reminds me of chrysanthemum leaves.

Dunno about the slight red coloring on the tsuba. It could be a "Bubba" job as Bruce posits, but I think "Bubba" would have left it gaudidly red; this red is very understated. Still, coloring on a tsuba is not anything one should expect. (Could it be a subtle lacquering?)


--Guy

[nickn]

The blade has been shortened so the nakago iisnt the original so not as old as the blade
Mounts are handachi
I have seen red lacquer on iron tsuba before

[nickn]

You beat me to it guy

[GHP]

The blade has been shortened so the nakago iisnt the original so not as old as the blade
...

Nick, I think I understand what you mean .... but am not certain. (^_^) The nakago is not ubu since it has been shortened [suriage], but its steel is as old as the blade. I think you mean that the current shortened nakago is not original to the "virgin" sword.

Nick knows, but for those of you who are not familiar with the terms ubu & suriage, here's an illustration I borrowed from Tozando explaining "ubu".


Terms:
Ubu 生ぶ virgin; American pronunciation: oo-boo; eww-bew]
Suriage 磨上 ground/polished up[i.e., "shortened"]; soo-ree-ah-gay

[nickn]

Yes
Brice was confused by the lack of age to the tang
That’s because the blade had been well shortened and what we now see is reworked blade to form the new tang
As you say and show in the drawing

[BruceP]

Thanks guys! I really was hoping there were an explanations for my concerns, and clearly there were. I have always loved that blade style where the groove goes all the way through the nakago. Have to get me one some day!.