Tojo Flag Alert !

[J7W22007]

Hi All,

Would like to give a heads up on this piece.

I was browsing through this site and stumbled upon this Tojo Flag.

http://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/m...gory_Code=10JM





Here are the descriptions:

"SUBJECT: This is a small Japanese hanging flag with kanji, or characters. The characters may have been added around the red sun against a white field as a good luck wish or patriotic message, or for another reason.

VINTAGE: Circa World War II.

SIZE: Approximately 25-3/4” in height and 16” in width (not including foam board); ties are about 2-1/2” each.

CONSTRUCTION/MATERIALS: Silk or muslin with inked details.

ATTACHMENT: Ties.

MARKINGS: None.

ITEM NOTES: This flag is shrink-wrapped and pinned to a piece of foam board. It will be shipped unwrapped and folded without the foam board, unless arrangements are made for pick-up or special shipping to preserve the shrink wrap mounting. This is from a Japanese collection which we will be listing more of over the next few months. VGEX09 LBIEX8/11

CONDITION: 8 (Excellent-): The flag has been well-preserved with very light wear.

GUARANTEE: As with all my items, this piece is guaranteed original."

Regards,
Taka

[Staldion]

They also have an IJN towel described as NLF hachimaki.

[J7W22007]

They also have an IJN towel described as NLF hachimaki.

I saw that as well.

Regards,
Taka

[Papa Nambu]

"Tojo flags" are indeed WWII era, they just aren't real Japanese yosegaki. They fool so many people because they have real age to them, and often come directly from vets or their estates.

I'd buy one for what it is if it was cheap enough. Any serious yosegaki collector should have a Tojo and a Seabee flag as examples of WWII era fakes. But $295 is pushing it for a real yosegaki unless it has something special about it (Tiger painting, famous signature, etc).

[Papa Nambu]

They also have an IJN towel described as NLF hachimaki.

To be fair, I'm sure many sailors used them as hachimaki.

[Staldion]

To be fair, I'm sure many sailors used them as hachimaki.

I agree, to be fair, I think it should be selling this way.

[GHP]

Here's what Tojo's actual signature looks like:

Tojo Hideki


古人今人若流水
東條英機

"Our ancestors and we as streams."
Tojo Hideki

This is from the Chinese poet Li Bai's poem, "Toast to the Moon"
[quote]把 酒 问 月
作 者 : 李 白

青 天 有 月 来 几 时 ， 我 今 停 杯 一 问 之 。
人 攀 明 月 不 可 得 ， 月 行 却 与 人 相 随 。
皎 如 飞 镜 临 丹 阙 ， 绿 烟 灭 尽 清 辉 发 。
但 见 宵 从 海 上 来 ， 宁 知 晓 向 云 间 没 。
白 兔 捣 药 秋 复 春 ， 嫦 娥 孤 栖 与 谁 邻 。
今 人 不 见 古 时 月 ， 今 月 曾 经 照 古 人 。
古 人 今 人 若 流 水 ， 共 看 明 月 皆 如 此 。
唯 愿 当 歌 对 酒 时 ， 月 光 常 照 金 樽 里 。

Li Bai: Toast to the Moon
Li Bai of Tang Dynasty
Translated by Laijon Liu 20090301

When the moon shall be bright?
Let me hold up my cup to ponder.
Human can never pluck the moon,
But she always goes with our step.
Shines as a mirror over red palace,
And thru the green mist she glitters.
The night wraps around from sea,
And dawn disappears into clouds.
White rabbit grinds in all seasons, (1)
And goddess lives without a friend.
This moon is not of ancient times,
But it once shone upon ancestors.
Our ancestors and we as streams,
And together we looked up to her.
I can only sing and pour my wine,
And wish she often shines into my cup.

source
secondary source in Japanese
Li Bai's poem

--Guy

[J7W22007]

Very interesting info, Guy-san.

Thank you for sharing.

Cheers!
Taka

[dolchmann07]

Tojo Flag

b

[dolchmann07]

Tojo Flag

Can anyone tell the purpose and use for these Tojo flags, I know they have some thing to do with the SeaBee's and are WWII period, but really do not understand their use.

thanks,
Jack Neeley

[GHP]

Can anyone tell the purpose and use for these Tojo flags, I know they have some thing to do with the SeaBee's and are WWII period, but really do not understand their use.

thanks,
Jack Neeley

They were made to sell to unsuspecting rear-echelon troops who didn't make it to the battlefield -- they rightly wanted to bring back a souvenir for their children/family/etc. I'm certain the GIs who obtained them (via poker or direct sale) were not aware they were fakes.

--Guy

P.S., Hmmmm..... then again, there was that Stars & Stripes photo of a SeaBee workshop making Japanese signature flags!

[Ryukyutunnelrat]

I have seen more and more of these flags coming up for sale on fleabay lately. They must have had an assembly line going on with these flags LOL.

[Rod G]

I've collected around 15 pics of "Tojo" flags that are or were recently for sale on the web, many of those on the auction site.

They're easy to spot. Usually vertical in orientation, which is not the natural way to regard your national flag. The "meatball" is often oversized in proportion. Many have two identical red ink "temple stamps" and the black ink writing looks laughable with any familiarity with written Japanese (something I've been acquiring since joining this forum).

Of those on e-buy most are 'buy it now' for the price of a genuine Hinomaru no Yosegaki. I think many of the sellers are at least aware there is a problem with their item and fishing for the greater fool. Often the description says "fresh from a veteran's estate" which for me has become a euphemism for run the other way.

Regards, Rod

[GHP]

Can anyone tell the purpose and use for these Tojo flags, I know they have some thing to do with the SeaBee's and are WWII period, but really do not understand their use.

thanks,
Jack Neeley

I'm still trying to find that photo of a Seabee flag-making operation -- I saw it here on WAF somewhere, but can't find it here or on Google Image.

However, I did find a great second-hand quote from WAFer RonC who, in August 2007, writes:

I picked this [rayed-sun flag] up a great number of years ago from a vet. I got it home and showed it to my father. He started laughing. He asked where I got it, and then said that I had not acquired a real Japanese flag! Then he told me the story. Dad was a Seabee in WW2, and those who know Seabees know they are "improvisers". Dad said this was without a doubt a Seabee made Japanese flag, they lived on the land in the Pacific with the Marines. Dad said they got hold of parachute silk; took it to their shop on Guam and etc.; cut it into flag size pieces; made a stencil; laid out the pieces on the workbench area; mixed up a solution of red "dye" using highly thinned red paint with some other stuff in it as well, placed the stencil and sprayed "Japanese" flags. They then took these to the regular Navy guys who would come into the dock areas from time to time (and never really got off to get souveniers) and traded the flags to them for fresh fruit and ice cream. They then took part of that to the Marines, who they also got along with very well, and gave it to them. Out of gratitude, the Marines would give the Seabees Japanese helmets, rifles, and other things......which they would again take to the regular Navy guys and deal to them for more goodies etc.........which they again would share with the Marines.......making a continuing circle of commerce. My father could not of course tell for sure if it was one he had helped make, but he said it was exactly like them and he was absolutely certain of what it was. Instead of being upset by what he told me, it has had a special place in my stuff since that time, and I will never forget the kick my father got when he first saw it. He of course is gone now, but every time I see it I remember him and the smile when he saw it. He did say however that it wasn't as good as the ones his guys had done, because this one had the red "dye" smeared in a few places.

Source

--Guy

[Nick Komiya]

Here's the photo