Naval donald duck cap talley

[GHP]

Hi,

....if the tally states South Korea (meaning the independent state) then it is post war as Korea did not split until after it ceased being a Japanese protectorate and/or colony.

DaeHan MinGuk Kaigun -- Greater Korea People's Nation Naval Force
[I'm not sure if I properly recalled the Korean for "navy"]

Or in Japanese pronunciation: Tai-Kan MinKoku Kaigun

--Guy Power

[MilitaryCollect]

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[MilitaryCollect]

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[John Egger]

Eric and All,
There are just moments before I walk out of the door for vacation but I'll add this.....the Japanese had a "puppet" navy in Manchuria.....Eric, I think you have had one of their navy sleeve ratings once. And I know "NLF Bob" has one or two....perhaps you can convince him to post some pictures of them. They are made almost exactly as the Japanese sleeve ratings. My point being it wouldn't be too far fetched for a tally for a puppet state Korean navy. You guys have this figured out by the time I get back on Monday ! And play nice !
Regards,
John

[Eric Doody]

Here is some Japanese writing with an anchor on the original paper container.
The paper is very old as is the tally.

Christopher

Christopher,

This kanji (i.e., the kanji in Post Number 13) translates to Navy Coded Telegram Blank Form Notepad and thus does not pertain to the subject tally per se in my opinion. The fourth kanji from the left on this paper was written in the World War II/pre-1948 style though in my opinion although I am not exacty sure date wise when this kanji was, in fact, simplified.

Eric

[Eric Doody]

Eric and All,
There are just moments before I walk out of the door for vacation but I'll add this.....the Japanese had a "puppet" navy in Manchuria.....Eric, I think you have had one of their navy sleeve ratings once. And I know "NLF Bob" has one or two....perhaps you can convince him to post some pictures of them. They are made almost exactly as the Japanese sleeve ratings. My point being it wouldn't be too far fetched for a tally for a puppet state Korean navy. You guys have this figured out by the time I get back on Monday ! And play nice !
Regards,
John

John,

I had five or six Manchukuo Navy winter (i.e., red-on-black) round ratings, and yes, the Manchukuo ratings were very similar to the Japanese ratings. (The main difference between the Manchukuo ratings and the Japanese ratings was that the Manchukuo ratings were equipped with a plum blossom and the Japanese ratings were equipped with a cherry blossom.)

This "Korea-South cap tally" still has me scratching my head.

Eric

[GHP]

Hi Guy,

Thank you for your help.

My question: is that your translation of the tally or is it how the South Koreans describe their post-war naval force?

Christopher

That is an accurate translation of the Chinese ideograms. Nowhere does it say "South Korea". I do not know how the South Koreans describe their post war navy force .... but I'm fairly sure they weren't using cap tallies in 1945.

Judging from the style of ideograms, I'd guess it belonged to the Korean navy ca. 1895. And since I'm now reminded that "Hae" means sea in Korean ("kai" in Japanese) the tally more properly reads "DaeHan MinGuk HaeGun". Important: "Dae Han" is the equivalent of "Dai Nippon" and implies an imperial/royal autonomy -- but Korean is *not* my area of schooling. I'm guessing your tally is pre 1905 which is the year Korea became a full vassel state to Japan (if I recall, Korea had Japanese "advisors" in 1900 -- they became defacto rulers in 1905).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Ja...War_(1894-1895)

After doing a preliminary Google search, I find that Haesadae is the 1945 term used for Naval Forces. http://www.navy.mil.kr:8005/english/intro_003.jsp
Don't know yet, but hangul [Korean syllabary] was probably used.

Cheers,
Guy

[Eric Doody]

Guy,

The subject tally when read from left to right in Japanese reads...

Dai which is for great
Kan which is for Korea
Min which is people (or people's)
Koku which is country (or nation)
Kai which is ocean
Gun which is troops (or forces)

You are right in that the kanji does not say South Korea. However, The New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary lists Daikan Minkoku as Korea-South which I, in turn, took for South Korea or the People's Republic of Korea.

It is interesting to note that the kanji koku on the subject tally is written in the older, non-simplified, form and is listed this way (i.e., in the older, non-simplified, form) in The New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary for Korea-South.

I think it's time for me to get some rest!

Eric

[GHP]

Hi Eric,

I didn't like the New Nelson's compared to the old New Nelson's.... but I've come to love it .... especially the residual-kanji section. By the way, where did you learn Japanese?

I guess it will be up to a Korea scholar to straighten this tally reading out.

Yes, it's time for me to go to bed as well...

Oyasuminasai,
Guy

[Eric Doody]

Guy,

I know what you mean.

This thread has definitely been an interesting thread and I wish to thank Christopher for challenging all of us.

While searching the Internet, I did find this link on the Korean language which I found interesting...

http://www.declan-software.com/korean.htm#Hangul

On a side note, I learned my Japanese while stationed in Japan in the 1980s. Unfortunately though, since I only get to practice speaking Japanese once or twice a year my speaking skills are poor. The same basically goes for Korean as well (I spent a little time in South Korea during the same timeframe) although I can only remember a few Korean words today as I don't get the opportunity to speak Korean much.

When it comes to written Japanese, especially kanji, I mostly rely on The New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary as well as a couple of circa 1930 English-Japanese and Japanese-English dictionaries that I have for translating. (For those forum members wishing to learn more about Japanese, and kanji in particular, I highly recommend picking up a Japanese-English character dictionary.)

I would also like to personally thank you for your input and insight with this, and other, threads as every bit or piece of information is useful.

Eric