Rarest 1915 Adrian?

[Chris Boonzaier]

It is an interesting helmet Frederic but I don't for one believe it is made from a US or American helmet - also technically there is absolutely NO such thing as an "American Brodie." The Brodie was an earlier helmet that led to the development of the British MkI and the American M1917 pattern helmets - the American being a clone of the British version.

But the steel is so different in the British and French helmets that a conversion seems unlikely. You have the helmet, so you tell me... is the steel of the helmet similar to the British MkI or the French 1915 Adrian? I believe these helmets were used with American liners and no comb but I don't believe these were modified. The process to do so would be more cumbersome than making a new helmet.

A silly question... did the 93rd Division have US artillery or French? I

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is a pot that a similar sample is pictured in Chris Armolds book and is supposedly made in US from a British Brodie for the 93th Division. A real helmet clue and certainly rare...

From what I can see, maybe I am looking wrong... the American troops in the 93rd Division were infantry... the artillery support was provided by the Frenche (wearing French made helmets).... so a special 93rd Division helmet with an artillery badge makes no sense?
Best
Chris

[Peter_Suciu]

From what I can see, maybe I am looking wrong... the American troops in the 93rd Division were infantry... the artillery support was provided by the Frenche (wearing French made helmets).... so a special 93rd Division helmet with an artillery badge makes no sense?
Best
Chris

I absolutely agree. The 93rd was an Infantry Division.

I believe this helmet to be real and a period experimental, but it was likely a helmet tested for artillery units in France and not worn by the 93rd.

Honestly, I don't know where the 93rd connection comes from apart from Armold's mention. I think he is mistaken on the subject that these were for the 93rd and no one questioned it. The 93rd wore French helmets, and this helmet was for another purpose. It is still an interesting and seemingly rare helmet just it shouldn't be associated with that unit.

[Frederic]

Hi,
Tom, mine has a British liner with the red Brodie Ink stamp. That is the reason I think mine is a converted British made helmet. But this does not mean the conversion was made in England or overseas as the USA had received thousands of those. And at this day, as you say, all those that have popped up were found in the United States. That yours is made from a US M17 can make us conclude they were converted after 1917...
Peter and Chris, I just copied the comments of Chris Armold in his book concerning the 93rd Infantry Division. At that time It was all I got.
For me too the specifically made artillery badge is a detail that I think is an important clue.
Anyway at the moment we can only speculate on the purpose of those helmets.
A usually with rare and strange items perhaps we will never know, or luckily some day something will be found... Chris had at least the merit of bringing a sample up in the light in his book.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I absolutely agree. The 93rd was an Infantry Division.

I believe this helmet to be real and a period experimental, but it was likely a helmet tested for artillery units in France and not worn by the 93rd.

Honestly, I don't know where the 93rd connection comes from apart from Armold's mention. I think he is mistaken on the subject that these were for the 93rd and no one questioned it. The 93rd wore French helmets, and this helmet was for another purpose. It is still an interesting and seemingly rare helmet just it shouldn't be associated with that unit.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say, maybe this was simply a guy who converted helmets in his workshop to propose them to the military as a replacement for the Brodie? Kind of an experimental thing that he hoped the army would adopt?