PRUSSIAN GARDE DRAGOON NCO's PICKELHAUBE

[90th Light]

Both mounted and non mounted Prussian Landgendarmerie officer wore a parade plume (black)

LG 11 stand for Landgendarmerie issued 1911

Here a non mounted officer on display and a mounted (square visor) on a photo

Thanks Gerd,

this has turned out to be a very interesting thread indeed

Could the marking in my helmet stand for LG Brigade 11 ?

It is all stamped as one line as follows "LG 11" in black ink on the back visor

Also mike (nzef1940) helmet has officer cockades with the double pearl ring on them them where as the two LG helmets that you have shown both have NCO cockades with the single pearl ring.

Why would Mike' helmet have officer cockades but no officer spike/ spike base. Plus it also has a pierced crown to the eagle's head ?

Chris

[nzef1940]

To 90th Light, because mine is a 'Garde Dragoon NCO' private purchase helmet, the original owner no doubt took great pride in his unit.

I dont want to continue with this Chris, I dont want a repeat of The 'turkish star' scenario thread.

There is absolute no reason why it should/could be Landgendarmerie!

It´s just one thing: a very nice helmet

[Gerd W.]

./.

[90th Light]

To 90th Light, because mine is a 'Garde Dragoon NCO' private purchase helmet, the original owner no doubt took great pride in his unit.

I dont want to continue with this Chris, I dont want a repeat of The 'turkish star' scenario thread.

Could also be an LG officer helmet. Seemingly they wore the same spike and cross base as their EM/ NCO's and did not wear the high quality, elaborate Army officer eagles which the Garde Dragoner officer would be entitled to wear. (same situation with customs official helmets. All EM, NCO and officers have the same spike, base and eagle except the officers wear officer cockades). In fact in the police/ customs are they called officers or just a higher grade office/ official ?

but lets ask Gerd because he knows more than you or me and that way this thread is of value and interest to all who read it

Keep in mind that not everything is about you or what you have, relax, chill out and enjoy the learning curve.

I too have one of these helmets which I am learning about in this process and that is the wonderful thing about the forum

and may I state my thanks to Tony and Gerd for what they have posted to help answer the questions so far,

Chris

[nzef1940]

No Chris this is about YOUR fixation with the LG, same as your fixation with my original Turkish Star being a 'cast copy' when it was proven original.

[90th Light]

That is correct for a Fähnrich. Nice lid. Well done.

Then again when we go back and read this informative thread, lets not forget what Tony posted here which would seem to explain it,

You are paranoid about "Turkish stars" and "fixations". Keep in mind that inquiry is about looking at something from all angles to find the answer.

And how is it a fixation when my helmet which is a twin of your helmet but not an identical twin has "LG 11" stamped in it. Until I asked the question on this thread I really was not sure what that meant, had some idea but wanted to know more. Plus how different is a Garde Dragoner helmet exactly from the one I have ?

Now I know, they are basically the same helmet in every way,

Chris

[nzef1940]

But you look from the single angle of attempting to convince that this is a Police helmet. Simply for the reason that you have an issued stamped o/r's example - supposedly, as you have failed to post any images?

When in all probability this example is a Garde Dragoon officer candidate/aspirants helmet, which its configuration perfectly matches.

Do you disagree?

[90th Light]

But you look from the single angle of attempting to convince that this is a Police helmet. Simply for the reason that you have an issued stamped o/r's example - supposedly, as you have failed to post any images?

When in all probability this example is a Garde Dragoon officer candidate/aspirants helmet, which its configuration perfectly matches.

Do you disagree?

Certainly appears to be the most likely scenario from what is stated here.

also Gerd has kindly posted some excellent examples of "LG" helmets and the one in post number 25 matches mine in every way plus his regulation book in post number 28 states that they did wear the helmet of the Garde Dragoner. This means that there is probably little need for images of my helmet to show that it is the Garde Dragoner model of helmet,

Chris

[nzef1940]

The most likely scenario is all I was ever trying to get to.

[90th Light]

Thanks for all the positive comments, I did not realise the haube was specific to 1 regiment, even better.

Yes I realise this but the above posting was the factor which I set out to investigate because I did not agree with that.

Now we know, this type of Pickelhaube was worn by 2 units;

- Garde Dragoner Reg. 1

- mounted LG units (rural only ?)

A worth while thread and finding in my opinion,

Chris

[nzef1940]

This 'type' yes, but not this particular example.

Interesting thread.

[90th Light]

This 'type' yes, but not this particular example.

Interesting thread.

Well I would like to know more about LG officer rank (high official) helmets because I do not think that they had one year volunters but I may be wrong.

Weighing up the information provided here then private purchase Garde Dragoner certainly seems the most likely scenario,

Chris

[Gerd W.]

Well I would like to know more about LG officer rank (high official) helmets because I do not think that they had one year volunters but I may be wrong.

Weighing up the information provided here then private purchase Garde Dragoner certainly seems the most likely scenario,

Chris

Some more informations are maybe appreciated:

in 1903 the complete Prussian Langendarmerie had

1 General
12 Brigadiers (Oberst/Oberstleutnant)
56 district officers
2 adjudants
8 officials (Zahlmeister u.a.)
427 Oberwachtmeister (379 were mounted)
4858 Gendarmen (1913 were mounted)

So we had only a number of 68 men in officer rank! Show me a helmet which could be 100% linked to one of them...........I would get a snyncopal attack within a second

However, the helmet for officers should be the very same as the one for Garde Dragoner officers (golden ones)! Special NCO helmets (or for Fähnrich) were not allowed for Landgendarmerie.

[C. Roelens]

Excellent thread gents...

Chuck

[90th Light]

Some more informations are maybe appreciated:

in 1903 the complete Prussian Langendarmerie had

1 General
12 Brigadiers (Oberst/Oberstleutnant)
56 district officers
2 adjudants
8 officials (Zahlmeister u.a.)
427 Oberwachtmeister (379 were mounted)
4858 Gendarmen (1913 were mounted)

So we had only a number of 68 men in officer rank! Show me a helmet which could be 100% linked to one of them...........I would get a snyncopal attack within a second

However, the helmet for officers should be the very same as the one for Garde Dragoner officers (golden ones)! Special NCO helmets (or for Fähnrich) were not allowed for Landgendarmerie.

Thank you Gerd,

You have some amazing information about this and I can feel your real interest and passion for the subject.

This is very interesting to say to least and based on what you have presented here then an LG mounted helmet is not exactly common by any stretch of the imagination.

but an officer example would be so rare that it is not funny and I take your point that due to the low numbers you may never see one plus how would one know unless it was marked as such because it would just look like a Garde Dragoner officer in every way.

I also take on board and accept your point that the LG did not have "Fahnich" or I should imagine also no "one year volunteers". This then would confirm that Mike (nzef1940) is a Garde Dragoner and can not really be anything else.

Well, I must repeat this has been a very interesting learning curve. The "LG" marking in my helmet for Mounted Police does not sound very exciting but to learn that the numbers of this unit were not very high is a real find.

This might also explain why they were allowed to wear the Garde Dragoner helmet.

May be they were recruited from the ranks of the Garde Dragoner and hence the connection ?

Also were all mounted police rural police ?

Again many, many thanks,

Chris