M17 S.i.66 - Near Mint and Complete

[C. Roelens]

Hi Chuck
Is this yours?
Nice, never seen that done before with the chinstrap. I used to call this type of pad skin Hog and the white pads we see Goat. But since moving to the US I,ve become confused.
Interesting name on the liner, cant you find anything on the net? I,ll look too.

Cheers
Eric

Hey Eric,

It's in my hands now, but the liner has got me scratching my head. I remember Hans explaining the tanning process awhile back... Maybe he can clarify. That might ease my feelings on the liner. It just looks too darn good, and the darkened color on the backside of the liner fingers is something I'm not familiar with.

Chuck

[Hans K.]

Chuck, see post 15. Like I said, the pads do look unusual, and if a hands-on makes you question them, I would go with my gut. Is there any indication that the liner has been out or that the leather is new? I honestly can't say for certain one way or the other just from the pictures.

Regarding the chinstrap, assuming it is original to the helmet, maybe, judging by the condition, it came off of a Pickelhaube??

[C. Roelens]

Nice one Chuck. The paint is well preserved and I especially love the chinstrap. The hook looks like it was an effective way to keep the one end from slipping off the lug.

The liner pads look very unusual, especially the colour, but they do remind me of the regular 'white' sheepskin pads with the exception that these look dyed and not chrome tanned. I haven't seen anything quite like these yet. Regarding the ink stamp, the only name that came to mind is Bautzen, which is a town in Saxony.

Hans

Thanks Hans,

Bautzen it could be. If you find additional information that might explain the texture of these liner pads please let me know.

Chuck

[pvluger]

Great helmet either way.

[C. Roelens]

Chuck, see post 15. Like I said, the pads do look unusual, and if a hands-on makes you question them, I would go with my gut. Is there any indication that the liner has been out or that the leather is new? I honestly can't say for certain one way or the other just from the pictures.

Regarding the chinstrap, assuming it is original to the helmet, maybe, judging by the condition, it came off of a Pickelhaube??

The liner is tight, and does not appear to have been removed, but, two of the liner pins have longs prongs, and are not painted the same color as the one with the shorter prongs. All of my M17's and M18's have the liner pins with shorter prongs.

The leather does not appear to be new, but the feel and color of it is very strange. I don't like the short stubby fingers on each of the pads either. They remind me of those found on reproductions awhile back.

Chuck

[Hans K.]

IMO your observations are reason enought to return it. Trust your instinct.

[DaveG]

I have a similar liner in a helmet I got directly from the son of a vet. The maker's mark is stamped on the leather instead of the cushion pouch. It does have a rather odd color but I believe it is good.

Dave

[DaveG]

A picture of mine:

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Chuck,

First thing I thought when I saw the pads was looks like a repro pads cause of the new leather like shine but the close ups you can see they are pretty dry.

I've never seen pads that nice save for repros but if you don't think the band was removed then they should by default be good.

The liner pins being different sized would be an issue for me. You know I've posted questions about M16 vs. M17/18 pins before and I don't think anyone knows conclusivly who made what or what was and was not used or mixed so hard to say. At least one of the liner pins looks like it might have been pulled at one time. I am not sure if you could re crimp the pads in without taking the liner all the way out or not. If it's possible to do that job with two pins removed and you see the possibility of them having been removed then it raises some doubts. One pin I saw looked not messed with since the war.

Like my odd bal M16 liner band with M17 pads, I only concluded it was good when I saw no evidence of being re sewn, you have to add the math the same way with this one.

William

[DaveG]

Another:

[Hoss]

Dave
May we see a photo of a pad pillow?

Eric

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Dave G, are the pads in your helmet the heavy leather found in M16's or the white leather found in M17's? I can't see the color but the pads have the same design of the M1t6 pads so if they are the white type they are taking up far too much room between the pads.

W.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

Dave
May we see a photo of a pad pillow?

Eric

There is no wear on the holes where the liner cords fits in. Not a good sign.

[DaveG]

Dave G, are the pads in your helmet the heavy leather found in M16's or the white leather found in M17's? I can't see the color but the pads have the same design of the M1t6 pads so if they are the white type they are taking up far too much room between the pads.

W.

The leather is of a heavier type, not the more supple leather found on the white types.

[Hans K.]

Dave, my question is where did the son of the vet get the helmet? I don't think his father brought it back with those liner pads in it. Like William pointed out, the drawstring holes look like they've never seen a string in them, and the wear on the leather doesn't look right at all. The leather, the shiny coarse cushion pouches and the grey(?) cushions make these pads look repro to me.