No reason to doubt this one at all, Note that they where not produced on a model T production line, hence the variation.
No offence but many North Americans seem to miss this fact.
No offence but many North Americans seem to miss this fact.
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And sadly here lies the conundrum: how can anyone ever be 100% sure of anything regarding these helmets? It looks good to me too, but with all due respect to nzef1940 it would be perfectly reasonable to doubt this one. Truly there is no baseline for authenticity for these helmets (unless as Chuck points out you find one with some unbroken provenance back to the veteran who originally brought it home), and even then, as nzef1940 also pointed out, there was no assembly line, no standardization of application, making each helmet unique, and therefore nearly impossible to determine authenticity. In other words collecting camos and uniquely marked helmets like this has almost come down to the maxim: "I can't prove it's bad; you can't prove it's good".
One thing is for certain: Chuck has good tastes in helmets.
DaveComment
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Gents
The insert photo on page 61 in Ludwig Baer,s book page 61 is not a closeup of D.Powers helmet insignia. Looking at Power,s stunning MG sharpshooter helmet I cant believe his Guard helmet is anything but original with a picture of the rear on page 64. Also Deeter,s camo page 63. To me these should be our benchmark in judgeing these scarce helmets. Another point unless the shell has been oiled or excessively handled the white should be relativity bright. This 'creaming' of the paint is a Fakers trick, IMO.
EricComment
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Adler 1Originally posted by Adler 1 View Post
Me too, a number of my helmets over the years had an Adrian chinstrap. Guess it doesnt take long for a Grunt to realize there,s something better laying around to keep his lid on!
EricComment
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Thanks Adler 1.Originally posted by Adler 1 View Post
I do not have an answer to your first two questions, but we all know that these helmets are extremely rare. I'm sure that's why some are going to have a hard time accepting it as an original. I can prove it was mailed home exactly as you see it. The family had know idea what it was let alone paint this, or any other insignia on it to enhance the value. I will get the best closeup pictures my camera can take and will post them later today.
You have a good eye my friend. Yes, the chinstrap has only one end buckle, and I believe it to be French... maybe Belgian? I served almost 25 years of active duty in the U.S. Marine Corps as an Infantryman (Grunt). Believe me, a good grunt will make do with anything he can get his hands on. WWI Marines and Soldiers did the same thing.
ChuckComment
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Thanks Dave.Originally posted by DaveG View Post After many many years of collecting a specific field you also get a "gut" feeling whether something is good, or to turn and walk away.
Chuck
ChuckLast edited by C. Roelens; 03-12-2010, 01:57 PM.Comment
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Eric,Originally posted by 704hoss55 View Post
Baer's book is one of the best ever produced on German helmet's, however; it is not the definitive answer to authenticating these rare helmets. If you look closely it's quite obvious the insert photo is not the one painted on Powers' helmet on the same page. Tell me my friend, the insert photo is darn near identical to the one painted on this helmet. Are you saying that the insert photo is a fake also? There is a variation to every single hand painted helmet of any unit in WWI. Never in a million years would I use "two" helmets pictured in a book as a benchmark for authenitcating a rare helmet. That would make "every" one of these that come up a fake. Sorry my friend, not buying it.
I'll get back to you on the "white" paint. Maybe the photos are throwing you off... maybe not. One thing is for sure, it is not a creamy mixture of trick paint. In hand it shows appropriate aging for something this old.
ChuckLast edited by C. Roelens; 03-12-2010, 02:59 PM.Comment
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Well
Thats me shot down in flames. I just thought looking at two originals was a good place to start. A fieldgrey and a camo.
EricComment
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Chuck it looks great to me. They are easy to fake and many are but if you know it came from a family of the vet who mailed it home and you don't suspect that anyone in the family messed with it I'd say you got a good one.
I wish I could shake your hand so some of that good luck you have had in 2010 would rub off on me
W.Comment
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Eric,Originally posted by 704hoss55 View Post
I was collecting helmets in the 1970s and I can tell you that these helmets were not being faked at that time. There was hardly anyone who knew or cared much about what they were. Most thought they were Freikorps or Reichswehr helmets. Somewhere, I have the letter that Ludwig Baer wrote me asking what I thought they were. At the time, I had only recently found out from an advanced collector, who knew of the helmet from the now well-known photo in the history of the 1st Garde Regiment zu Fuß. For the longest time after that it was thought that this was a regimental helmet. Of course, other photographic evidence later proved it was much more.
During that time period (mid-1970s to the early 1980s), I picked up every such helmet that I could. I ended up with three, but another collector here in town has four or five of them, all gotten during that time. We had the added advantage that the local WWI division (35th) ran into the 1st Garde Division on more than one occasion and the helmets were turning up with some frequency, here in the Midwest.
Fake paint jobs started turning up in the late 80's-early 90s. They were not that impressive.
Regarding shape and size, I would be interested to know what the correct size and shape are and how the conclusion was arrived at. Though there certainly are commonalities, there was no stencil being used, nor was one painter doing all the work. My shields are not all the same.
Regards,
ChipComment
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Sir
In the mid sixties the BBC showed a series in England that sparked a huge interest in WW1 (The Great War). With a little leg work the information on these rare helmets including period photograghs was readily available to any student or young WW1 Nut like me from War Museums or local Regiment libraries. I cant or want to comment on an authors or collectors confusion when the info was there the whole time.
Chip can you honestly say that the Imperial German Guard would tolerate the poor examples we see today with what looks like a field applied insignia. You have what 3 or 4? Your lucky, I,ve only owned one in 40yrs!But the few originals I,ve seen all have a clear sharp pointed decal in thin paint even over camouflage. If collectors want to enter a 'comfort zone' with their examples thinking that maybe a soldier had nothing on and got out a paint pot (that,s what it looks like to me) Fine.
Regards
EricComment
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Eric stop raining on the parade or were gonna crucify you like they did when people used to say the world was round when everyone knew it was flat!
But really, look at the photos here, they don't look too pointy and Chuck's is even positioned like the ones on the troops being inspected by the Crown Prince.
W.Comment
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William
But Iam English. We love the rain! We have no choice!
The picture your showing is from one of our early reanactments. Its a setup. Only jokeing!!!! OK,OK, I,ll shut my trap.
EricComment
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Ugg wish my photo was more clear. Hope other viewers can see it better then on my monitor.
I wish I could find one of the originals. So for this debate I score the Englishmen as per the photo
W.Comment
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