Berndorfer

[PEIPER]

Hi Guys !!
I'm happy to show You this rare helmet ,the liner has a different sistem (felt inner ring) on the rear You can see the assault unit number (stoormtroops)

Thank You

[PEIPER]

berndorfer

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[PEIPER]

berndorfer.

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[Peter_Suciu]

Was this helmet on eBay recently?

[Brian Calkins]

berndorfer

That is an fantastic shell, but don't you think that the liner was replaced at some point? I do not see any reason for a felt liner band and the wear on the pads doe not match the wear on an obviously issued and field worn helmet. What do you think?
Brian

[Peter_Suciu]

That is an fantastic shell, but don't you think that the liner was replaced at some point? I do not see any reason for a felt liner band and the wear on the pads doe not match the wear on an obviously issued and field worn helmet. What do you think?
Brian

That was my thought about the liner. It doesn't seem to match the wear on the helmet shell.

I also wondered about the paint. This doesn't seem to be the typical Austrian brown, which is almost the color of a Japanese WWII helmet. I've seen a few of these Berndorfer shells recently with this green. I've heard these were reissued, and considering the new governments in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and even in Austria and Hungary after the war I could see these being used in the 1920s. But the fakers are so good it is hard to know if that liner was from 1918 or 1998!

[Brian Calkins]

berndorfer

Peter,
I see your point about the paint. It looks like what you would find on a German helmet, not an Austrian. It could be just the pictures but notice the chinstrap fittings, they are brown. Thousands of German helmets purchased and used in 1916 by the Austrians were repainted brown in field repair depots, but I can't imagine a Berndorfer, which would have a factory brown paint job, being repainted green during the war. Nothing is impossible but I think odds are that you are right. It's a Czech or other country repaint/reissue. Maybe maybe saw action in Poles vs. bolsheviks? Maybe friecorps? Who knows. The key to it's origin may be the painted marks on the back. Still, the paint looks period and any Berndorfer that's not a modern repaint is a nice piece to own.

[Peter_Suciu]

This is the Berndorfer I was thinking about on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUSTRIAN-GERMAN-...QQcmdZViewItem

Same color? And the eBay helmet has a newish looking liner, but one I think is actually from a Swedish helmet.

This is why I'm just asking if anyone thinks maybe some Berndorfers are getting the refurb treatment?

[Brian Calkins]

helmet

Peter,
I saw another helmet on-line similar to the ebay helmet. It was being sold as an Italian repaint. The idea of a Berndorfer being a period Italian refurbish job is far feched. While the paint and the chinstrap could be Italian, the liner is neither German, Austrian or Italian. Plus, while it is documented that the Austrians put captured Italian adrians into service, I have never heard of or seen a photo of Italians wearing reissued Austrian helmets.

I don't know for sure that Berndorfers are being repainted and aged, but if they were, you would think the faker would try to make it look like an Austrian wartime piece.

I really think that these are postwar reissues with a liner replaced "who nows when".
Brian

[Lafitte]

Hallo boys!! I look only now thi beatiful helmet in the old post!
Very beatiful piece!!
The helmet is it ok, liner is it correct, black felt ring with waxed cloth pads, chinstrap is it correct too !
I think the photo flash give at the shell color a green tonality but the color is it right the shell isn't repaint in fact the rusty zones are very clearly.
Exist 3 types of liners for the berndorfer helmet metal ring with holes with streaked waxed cloth or leather, metal ring with waxed cloth and cotton bonnet and 4 pieces of large felt, and like this with felt and waxed cloth pads.
This one are the type with defined visor.
Good piece!!

[Sam]

Hi

The helmet and liner both look correct per photos in the excellent reference work The Emperor's Coat (Uniforms and equipment of the Austro-Hungarian Army from 1914-1918)

Regards,
Sam K.

[Peter_Suciu]

The helmet and liner both look correct per photos in the excellent reference work The Emperor's Coat (Uniforms and equipment of the Austro-Hungarian Army from 1914-1918)

Wear of the paint doesn't match the wear of the liner in my opinion. Not my helmet, but if it were for sale I wouldn't buy it.

[PEIPER]

!!!!

Hey !! I think You are wrong ! The paint of the shell is tipical austrian brown in photo is a little bit different and the liner was there since the helmet was born.I found it here in Italy when i was child !! it was my first helmet italian veteran (Di mascio was the name)bring back from 1ww and it isn't an ebay berndorfer !!! and it's a rare variant with felt inner ring and good study piece !Now the ring is deformed because time oh my god I'm sorry You think it's a fake.may be You have to study a bit about austrian helmets.Peter Suciu You are right if my berndorfer were for sale You haven't to buy it because it will never be for sale because it was my first great find it's my best helmet and opened my 25 years militaria collecting way.

Sorry for that but I wish to cancel my helmet on this forum...how is possible?

Thanks

Marco D'Alessandro

[Peter_Suciu]

Hey !! I think You are wrong ! The paint of the shell is tipical austrian brown in photo is a little bit different and the liner was there since the helmet was born.I found it here in Italy when i was child !! it was my first helmet italian veteran (Di mascio was the name)bring back from 1ww and it isn't an ebay berndorfer !!! and it's a rare variant with felt inner ring and good study piece !Now the ring is deformed because time oh my god I'm sorry You think it's a fake.may be You have to study a bit about austrian helmets.Peter Suciu You are right if my berndorfer were for sale You haven't to buy it because it will never be for sale because it was my first great find it's my best helmet and opened my 25 years militaria collecting way.

Sorry for that but I wish to cancel my helmet on this forum...how is possible?

Thanks

Marco D'Alessandro

I did not mean any offense. I would have to see this helmet in the flesh. But from the photos it does appear more green than brown.

This is ONLY my opinion, but I made my points. Again, I am sorry if I offended. Hopefully some day I can see the helmet in person. But from the photos I see a couple of red flags.

[Brian Calkins]

Chill out

Peiper,
You should not take offense at any discussion of this helmet. First, I thank you for posting the photos. It is a very nice helmet and has provided a stimulating debate. After all, isn't that what this forum is here for? To debate and learn from each other?

If you had provided a history of this helmet, you might have avoided some of the talk about fakes. Besides, no one is suggesting that your helmet is faked in any way, simply that it may have been reissued in the post war period.

I do not doubt your history of the helmet, but the current physical condition of the helmet dictates that there is more to the story. It looks obvious from the photos that there is more wear to the shell than there is to the liner and chinstrap.

How can this be unless they were added later? Perhaps the helmet went to a repair depot late in the war? If so, why was it not also repainted?

I have personally been collecting WWI headgear for 30 years and I have a very nice AH collection including four issue field caps. But I certainly don't know everything...none of us do.

What we are all passionate about is the history of these objects. Without that, they are just worthless old pieces of metal, cloth and leather. So, if you disagree with any comments about your helmet, don't take offense, share your passion and knowlege with us and we will do the same.

Happy collecting!!