U Boat Badge

[Ralph Arndt]

Gentleman another badge that I would like your opinions on. Thanks a lot for your time, Ralph

[Lubo]

It’s superb and quite rare variation, but it’s probably not WWI era, most likely 1920s or 1930s!

[Ralph Arndt]

Lubo thanks, do you know who the maker is by the mark on this badge, again thanks . Ralph

[Lubo]

Hi Ralph, I could only speculate based on the reverse set up that it’s an early work of F. Wiedmann!

[Don D.]

Others used that style pin as well so I would not put too much faith in nailing down a maker based on that. Besides, you would have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to get that mark to mean Wiedmann.

[Lubo]

Hi Don, of course you’re right, but that why I used the word SOECULATE!

[Norm F]

It’s superb and quite rare variation, but it’s probably not WWI era, most likely 1920s or 1930s!

A zinc U-Boat badge pre-1941?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Ralph Arndt]

I believe this one is also zinc.

[Lubo]

A zinc U-Boat badge pre-1941?

Best regards,
---Norm

Hi Norm, now that you brought this up it does have a zinkish look! Do you judge it being made in zinc just because of the type of the reverse set up and how the base material ate the gold plating or you know for sure that this same badge is made of zink?! If made in zink, then yeah, probably waaay later than the end of WWI, well into WW2?! I guess Ralph could try to clear all this up!

And Ralph, the Schot example you’re showing should NOT be made of zinc, but bronze/brass!

[Ralph Arndt]

I think bronze or brass. You are correct.

[Norm F]

Hi Norm, now that you brought this up it does have a zinkish look! Do you judge it being made in zinc just because of the type of the reverse set up and how the base material ate the gold plating or you know for sure that this same badge is made of zink?! If made in zink, then yeah, probably waaay later than the end of WWI, well into WW2?! I guess Ralph could try to clear all this up!

These badges are definitely zinc and therefore, I think, not pre-WW2. Beyond that, they're a mystery.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Actually, I just realized that the two images I have on file of the "cross over M" zincer are a completely different obverse design from the one Ralph posted and also have differently cut margins and setups.

This needs more study...

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The two that I posted are the same as this Tombak version which I believe to be a cast reproduction trying to look like a Meybauer (although with the wrong obverse design).

In my opinion all three of those (two zinc and one Tombak) are post-war fakes, so that leaves the question what is Ralph's badge, which is different but has the same stamp.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

In my opinion all three of those (two zinc and one Tombak) are post-war fakes, so that leaves the question what is Ralph's badge, which is different but has the same stamp.

In fact, on further scrutiny, Ralph's badge has the S&L obverse design. The known S&L wartime catalogs only list a hollow version (shown here) and not a solid version, unlike Deumer who marketed both in their catalog. Furthermore, when you magnify Ralph's image, I believe I see casting blobs/flaws on the obverse.

So for now, I believe the evidence favours that Ralph's badge is a cast reproduction of an S&L with the same "cross over M" stamp as the other fakes.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

This Gallipoli Star has the same setup and main pin as the other fake U-Boat badge I posted, and I believe it's a reproduction as well. Although the pointed lily-pad hinge looks very much like the 1920's hinges seen on Stahlhelm badges, that main pin is different.

Best regards,
---Norm