Imperial medals from estate, identification and value?

[tmca05]

A friend of mine sent me theese low quality photos of some medals his neighbor has from his grandfather estate.
They would like me to make an offer on them.
They say there is no chips in the enamel on the second Bavarian military merit, it's just light reflection.
What is the middle (third) medal. I have seen it before but I can not find any reference on it at all.

Any rough idea on a conservative value? I do not know if the Bavarian order of military merit second class is actually made of gold or not. I will assume it is not.

Thanks, Dave

[tompress]

/.../
What is the middle (third) medal. /.../

Austrian Militärverdienstkreuz mit Kriegsdekoration (Military Merit Cross with War Decoration), 2nd Class, established 1914.

greetings
Tomasz

[tmca05]

Thanks, I knew I'd seen it someplace, but I was looking under German medals not Austrian.

[GdC26]

Looks like the grandfather may have been a general in the Bavarian army. Do you have name?
Regards,
Sandro

[tmca05]

These were not known family items. They were brought back as war souvenirs by the current owners grandfather who served as a US GI in WW2.
I wish I knew more about their history, but I do not.
I have not seen them in person yet but I am pretty excited about them.

[ww1czechlegion]

by member tmca05:
I have not seen them in person yet but I am pretty excited about them.

Wow, oh wow, oh wow!

Yes, I can imagine that you are "pretty excited about them." I sincerely hope you can acquire them.

A word of caution, in sincere hopes that you can acquire these pieces for your collection: This can be a bit of a tricky situation with nice, rare, and valuable pieces such as these. We know how most reputable and sincere collectors are, including yourself, when we all want to to be "fair" with someone in offering a realistic or "fair" price for something nice such as this. Seriously speaking, be Very careful with yourself not to scare or spook them with how much these are actually worth (the two golden Bavarian Military Orders). I can imagine the family would be literally stunned or shocked if they knew what the real value of these 2-awards are. More often than not people will get spooked or scared when they find out how much these 2-awards are worth, and then they pull back "like a turtle" and decide not to sell them, or "they want to research" the items themselves, because what happens is that the owners are literally in a state of shock upon receiving surprisingly high offers on items that turn out to be offers that are waaayyy more than what they imagined the items might be worth. It's happened countless times over and over again with not only all types of military collectibles, but anything collectible that is worth a considerable amount of money when compared to a much lower expectation value in the minds of what the current owners might have or think what these medals may be worth.

Without knowing the people who own these medals currently and not having spent time sitting down visiting with them about the medals and more importantly finding out what they value the medals at, and what they value money at, my sincere thoughts are that anything over $500-$600 might spook them away from selling and push them into "turtle mode" in wanting to research the medals themselves "on the internet". What is fair to you and I may be way overboard to them and scare them away from selling the items. I know this sounds "crass", "petty", and "cheap", but I've seen people get scared over 35-years of buying and collecting, and they pull back from selling items when I (or other buyers/collectors) don't take time with the seller getting to know them, find out what they think the items are worth/what they want for them, and find out what "money means to them". It takes time, patience, and people skills.

Again, I wish you only the very, very best and hope that you can acquire these stunning, valuable, and rare awards! I have my fingers crossed for you!

Best Regards,

Alan

[Gary B]

I always believe in honestly telling the potential sellers the "retail" value of the piece and then asking them what their desire is to do with the items. If they desire to sell give them options on how to go about this, offer your services, explain the pros and cons of the different venues of selling. If that results in them keeping the piece(s) or looking for someone else then so be it.

As Alan indicated the first two Bavarian awards are worth in the 4 figures. Depending on the year of make these could be made of gold or silver.

Gary B

[Claudius]

I agree with Alan... wow, oh wow!

You typically don't see the first two awards coming out of personal estates.

Dave; from left to right you ordered them from highest to lowest value. In round amounts...$4,000? to $50.

When you are discussing value of the pieces with the owners you can certainly explain the difference between current value price and what it will sell for. And how it usually takes more time to sell the most expensive items and the least expensive items. If they go "turtle mode" they could convince themselves to go ebray thinking they will get the upper limit price, when it might end up going for less.

It will take good people skills and a sharp pencil. IMO; In order for the family not to have to list/sell each seperate item, you might want to offer for the entire lot.

Good luck

[Gary B]

I have seen the 1st award as high as $5,000. Again it depends on the era of manufacture. You would need to examine for jeweler marks / metal content (i.e. silver or gold).

Again the pros and cons of auction fees, low bids, dealers paying .30 to ,50 on the dollar etc. You are there right then and there with cash on hand. Think "American Pickers"!

Gary B

[ROBB]

Shame they don't have ribbons that affects the value greatly and also no paperwork tut tut . And noone collects these old Bulgarian medals I will give you $500 cash . That's what I would say . Rob

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Shame they don't have ribbons that affects the value greatly and also no paperwork tut tut . And noone collects these old Bulgarian medals I will give you $500 cash . That's what I would say . Rob

Hahaha

[Claudius]

Shame they don't have ribbons that affects the value greatly and also no paperwork tut tut . And noone collects these old Bulgarian medals I will give you $500 cash . That's what I would say . Rob

wow, $500 for the lot....generous offer

[Christian J]

Nice pieces.
I would go the same route. It's not like the owners have paid anything for them.

[tmca05]

Just an update.
I have not seen the medals yet in person, but I do know that they are from the grandson of a US WW2 GI. He picked them up at the end of the war just outside Berchtesgaden. He was part of the 774th Tank Destroyer Unit and they were in that area of operation.

[tmca05]

Update

Well I finally got them

The Bavarian order, 3rd class with crown is chipped on both sides. It has no markings that I can see. The cross looks to be made of gold, but the flames and crown are gilded.

The Bavarian Military Merit Order 2nd class with swords is well marked.

The back of the swords appear to be marked GH 585.

Inside the loop is marked 585

The cross appears to be marked DEB.H. 750

Thanks Vince for your help. The 2nd Class is an award piece by Hemmerle of Munich, the Court Jeweler.

These were brought back by a GI in the 774th Armoured. He ended the war in Bavaria.

Sure with I know the actual recipient, but that is now lost to history.

Dave