plm for reveiw

[cobra-2001]

Hi I pick up this plm and if a copy it is very well made. If anyone has any info on it I sure like to here from you on this . Thanks Cliff

[cobra-2001]

pic

pic

[streptile]

It's definitely not a known or accepted period type.

I don't have a good feeling about it because I've never seen another like it, and the design seems off to me, as if its CAD generated.

Can you give us info on the materials (gold? silver gilt?) and the weight?

An in-hand examination can always reveal the truth in my opinion. Period workmanship is very difficult to duplicate on an enameled order such as this.

Anyway, I would withhold 100% judgment without holding it I guess, but I am skeptical. Let's see if more turn up.

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi Trevor it weights 26 grams. I say it is silver gilt and the enamel is just that not glass like they make now . I clean up the plm it had a lot darker tone to it. I agree I have not seen one like it also. Though it might be one of the dead eye plms but after looking it was different . I still thinking it might be a wears copy made during the 20s . But that is just a guess. Thank you for your opinion . Cliff

[streptile]

...the enamel is just that not glass like they make now .

Hi Cliff,

That's what I meant by judging it in-hand. The old glass enamel is very hard to duplicate and the "feel" of the thing is very important. Even the old-fashioned fire gilding has a feel to it.

For example, all Dead Eye PLMs that I have held personally just don't have a period feel. Even the WWII-era bronze-gilt S&L PLMs feel period, while the postwar ones do not.

It's very hard to judge these things by photos, but I do know that or someone is making very, very sophisticated copies of high-end awards.

Here's one of the new fake RKs. It's scary and virtually indistinguishable from an authentic Juncker judging solely from normal photos:



My gut tells me this PLM is a new generation copy, rendered out by CAD and manufactured to very high specs. It doesn't match any known types but suggests various known types from different periods.

[Erickn]

Hello Cliff,

At a glance this PLM lacks the Old World appearance I would expect but, first gut response shouts Falso Español !

Regards
E.

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi I though that to but looked at them and is not the same as them either. Cliff

[Zepenthusiast]

This new PlM has better looking eagles than the common "Spanish Fake" type (though they are cutting out the legs on those now to make them less obvious), but the enamel and lettering are more than a cut below many of the former. A real tribute to how difficult it must be to fashion quality enamel like the masters of old.

Hey Trevor, re

Even the WWII-era bronze-gilt S&L PLMs feel period

Have you turned up some new evidence in support of a WWII S&L?? I was under the impression this is still a very open question. Though their apparently earlier pieces show a high quality, to my knowledge still no hard evidence...?

Best,

Jim

[streptile]

Have you turned up some new evidence in support of a WWII S&L??

I have enough to convince myself.

[cobra-2001]

[QUOTE=streptile;7404679]I have enough to convince myself.[/QUOTI agree with Trevor I have had a couple nice S&L I believe were made during the war and the detail on them far surpass the 1957 ones by mile.I will look and see if I can find the thread I posted.

[cobra-2001]

plm

Here are the threads that show high quality S&L plms http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=477972 and another one is http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=528757 these are both well detailed S&L plms .Cliff

[Zepenthusiast]

Hi Cliff,

I think this one http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=477972 may not have been the one you were trying to link--seems to be about an eBay fake?

No doubt S&L did quality work, even their more "common" PlM demonstrate the abilities of a company with deep roots. That said, they have a number of distinctive qualities which set them readily apart from Wagner PlMs photographically, so to conclude a WWII vintage it would seem we would need either 1) an example with provenance--none known? or 2) a photograph of one in wear which was reasonably convincing--none known?

I realize I've made great hash--including of myself!--looking for "Dead Eyes" in photos, but at least there the resemblance to a hollow Wagner in everything but scale makes it possible we could be looking at one and not realize it, unless the image details were clear enough. Haven't even seen a single "maybe" advanced for an S&L in wear, so have to wonder what evidence there is at present aside from quality of manufacture. I'm not at all against such a discovery, in fact would love to see it proven (thought I might have had such a photo myself, in fact--ironically of von Greim no less!--but the cross he is wearing is from some as yet unidentified maker and may be a one-of example.)

Have to good-naturedly give you a hard time for the "enough evidence for me" Trevor--you know you wouldn't accept that from me!

Jim