How rare are blued-cored EK's?

[Robert P.]

I believe this cross has a blued core. The bluing is nearly impossible to see through the rust on the obverse side, but it visible in spots on the reverse side.

How rare are these blued cores?

Robert

[Robert P.]

Non-combatant ribbon...

[Jelle M.]

Could it be a discoloration caused by patina?

[Robert P.]

I suppose. Are you thinking it is not blued, or agree that it is blued?

Robert

[Montgomery Burns]

how do you recognise the blued method in the first place..?

witch one of the blued methods available is used ?... on this one .

is it blued ?

look closely to the inside of the leaves ,,close up those .


regards kay

[Robert P.]

Thank you for the reply Kay,

It's in these areas (circled) that I see the indication of bluing.

I'll take a close-up of the leaves and post it in a minute or so...

Robert

[Jelle M.]

I don't think they ever designed crosses with a blued core.
I suppose that would be against the regulations.

[Robert P.]

I don't think they ever designed crosses with a blued core.
I suppose that would be against the regulations.

Zimmermann's were blued. I found a few in the forum's archives under "blued core'...

Here are some close-ups. I really don't see much in the way of a blue coloring in the leaves. Yet, it just doesn't have the look of black paint either. But I do see evidence of blue sparkle under the rust in the arms of the cross (as shown in the second close-up)...

Robert

[Robert P.]

Here is one thread with blued-cored EKI's and EKII's...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=blued+core

Robert

[streptile]

Hi Robert,

Whether this is correct or not (I don't know), the Zimmermann type is called "blued," and yours (if you're sure it's not painted) is considered "blackened." I'll leave the precise definitions of the terms to any scientists or metallurgists among us, but I do know this: blued-type Zimmermanns are uncommon but not really rare; blackened cores are more common. I'm sure your recently-posted S-W EK2 with a B14 core is also blackened, as are most of those type. The difference in appearance is due to the fact that the blackening adheres to a cast iron core (S-W) differently than to a stamped steel core (the one you show here). Also, different makers probably had different processes for blackening, resulting in slightly different finishes. The old 1870 blackening process is described in the BDOS article on them, which can be read here.

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert,

Whether this is correct or not (I don't know), the Zimmermann type is called "blued," and yours (if you're sure it's not painted) is considered "blackened." I'll leave the precise definitions of the terms to any scientists or metallurgists among us, but I do know this: blued-type Zimmermanns are uncommon but not really rare; blackened cores are more common. I'm sure your recently-posted S-W EK2 with a B14 core is also blackened, as are most of those type. The difference in appearance is due to the fact that the blackening adheres to a cast iron core (S-W) differently than to a stamped steel core (the one you show here). Also, different makers probably had different processes for blackening, resulting in slightly different finishes. The old 1870 blackening process is described in the BDOS article on them, which can be read here.

Thank you much Trevor,

So the blackening process on a sheet metal core will at times 'slightly' resemble a blued core. Very interesting. Thank you for this clarification.

Robert

[Montgomery Burns]

lets put some research results here

you can chose from there ..Robert

fore the blackening off Iron
there where at least 5 different methods

and on off them was the so called Anlauffärbung

"The theory"
a collaring from yellow to dark Grey was achieved by heating sessions off the Iron
according to the tables I found ,
the collar dark Grey wood be the max to achieve

the second method is called Swiss Blackening

in basic it is
the use off chemicals that would cause artificial oxidation off the iron
.
followed by cooking the iron in water
and turning the reddish Iron oxide in to the black coloured
Iron oxydoludoyt

a very easy way
chemicals and tools already present in the work shop
labour friendly
usable fore higher production numbers

the third method is named especially fore cast Iron

in short
a mix off Schwefelkalium and Chlorammonium was used to paint the iron black

and a second paint called Asphaltlak was used afterwards to intensify the black colouring

this method is very labour friendly
and sure cheap and usable fore mass production

the fourth method is called Brünieren with oil and vat

this labour intensive method uses oil and fat mixed with Antimonchlorür
(English brünier salt )

dipped ,heated , brushed ,polished , oiled,and furnished in several day's of intensive labour session the iron oxide changes slowly in to a layer that was called brüniert

the fifth method is called Brünieren with fluids

in short
iron chloride ,iron vitriol, coper nitrate are mixed with water
and the iron wood be treated with the mixture
and let to dry
after that the iron wood be brushed
and retreated with the mixture ,

this had to be repeated several times
until a good layer off collaring wood emerge .



a second method off Brünieren with fluids is ,

dipping in a mixture heated bath off Arsenic Iron chloride
and hydrochloric acid.
and so the collaring wood be established

http://ironcross.vpweb.nl/collaring-...er-patina.html

[Montgomery Burns]

you're cross is a combination of the first and 3'th method..

if you ask me ,,seen that on most of the 1914 crosses .

dark grey metal with a darker black gloss top layer .

regards kay

[Robert P.]

Thank you for this Kay,

Combination of the 1st and 3rd method, OK.

Some of those solutions, if brought to the boiling point, would be very harmful to one's health.

It's all very interesting, and after reading this it makes me respect the Imperial crosses even more for all of the labor that went into them.

Thank you again,
Robert

[Montgomery Burns]

Thank you for this Kay,

Combination of the 1st and 3rd method, OK.

Some of those solutions, if brought to the boiling point, would be very harmful to one's health.

It's all very interesting, and after reading this it makes me respect the Imperial crosses even more for all of the labor that went into them.

Thank you again,
Robert

by God ,,throe words ...and this only the tip of the iceberg ..





regards kay