How rare are blued-cored EK's?

[Tiger 1]

Gentlemen.

Blued cores are just that .... blued. This was accomplished using the same bluing process as seen on earlier German Luger pistols.

The method used involves an acid reagent to cause rusting on steel. This generaly takes a few applications with carding and neutralusing in between applications.The rusting is stopped and converted from a red oxide to a blue one by being boiled for a specific time. Then oiled.

The process is known in the gunsmith trade as slow rust bluing or more specifically as the Zischang process after the man who developed it.

Here's a few blued core EKs for your enjoy ment.

All the best.

Tony

[Montgomery Burns]

somehow I find the overall look of you're picture strangely collared .
over lighted ? ,,and the blue is almost fluorescent ?

is that daylight !

so far in comparing to the other pictures shown here , to poor fore comparing .

but here a interesting link with perfect pictures for the bluing ..
notice how thin the layer is over the bluished pistols
https://www.google.nl/search?q=luger...ol%3B751%3B491

And so far everyone here was open-mindedly discussing core collaring ,,,,,power claims of this is the way and that's it,,,,,,,, are unnecessary

.

[gregM]

Blued core Zimmerman.
The core is core is almostblack but has a blue cast to it.
Just like the Luger in Kay's link.

[gregM]

Another blued core Zimmerman. This one is not as dark, which shows mor
of the blue cast.

[Montgomery Burns]

I think to make a proper scientifically case fore the luger versus cross bluing,

we need a collector with a real luger putting a real Zimmerman next to the gun and photographing it

this is the reason wy ,,,,,,look at comparing picture

.

[Montgomery Burns]

Beside that ,,,we need an luger expert.

with the 200 different shade's collared lugers down the link ,,,we don't even know what collaring is the original ... or what perhaps a restored collar is..

as well 2 dozen different method's could be used .

we are cross collectors ...after all.

who got friends in the gun section ?
maybe someone want to help out ..





.

[Tiger 1]

Kay....

The picture of the blued crosses I posted was taken in natural daylight to specifically show the blue tone that is the result of the Zischang process.

As a note, Professor Zischang developed this method of controlled rusting for the Imperial German Army and by extension the German armaments industry.

What needs to be kept in mind is the process is singular and not the two dozen methods you state.

Variations in color have much to do with variables such as wear, fading, as well as the level of application. We also should not forget that making color judgements solely from photographs is an excercise in futility when the lighting and exposures is not known or consistant.

As for Luger 'experts' ...... what is your definition?

Does ownership of 6 or 10 or 25 + make someone an 'expert'?

Does being personal friends and a business associate with someone that at one point before retiring owned over 850 Lugers at one time and has handled thousands of Lugers if not tens of thousands in his career? Mr. Fred Fiet is a name known and respected byLuger collectors. As is renown Luger expert Mr. Ralph Shattuck and Mr. Kenyon. When I collected Lugers I had the rarified opportunity to spend time with these fine gentlemen discussing Luger minutia on many occassions over many years.

Unfortunately there are very many 'collectable' Lugers that have seen the art and craft of restoration artists that are for all intents and purposes indistinguishable from original finishes once aged and faded. So...are we really sure we're looking at an 'original' finish? And you can bet that these restored Lugers were redone using original methods and formulas. If fakes are a concern in our militaria hobby compared to high end firearms we are small ball.

Though I happen to know my way around Lugers I am NOT an 'expert'. I'm still learning and still a student of them and methods of manufacture and finish even though I no longer collect them seriously.

I'm always willing to learn my friend. Let's hear what others have to say. That's how we all learn.

Best regards.

Tony

[streptile]

Blued cores are just that .... blued. This was accomplished using the same bluing process as seen on earlier German Luger pistols.

Thanks Tony.

[Montgomery Burns]

I think there is a misunderstanding here ,,,

all I am looking for is ,,,(and wondering about.)

how do you recognize the bluing method on a iron crosses core .
beside assuming it is : because of the blueish black shade .?

the crosses shown here have a blue black shade ,,correct.
if you put two zimmerman's next to each other,
the looks of the core and shade are identical.

In my opinion the next step is putting a cross next to a blued gun ..or something else.
hopefully seeing the bluing is exactly similar ..right ?

that is not happening or possible ? wy ?
what is the problem ?

are you guy's unsure the comparing will not bring a match ?




.

[Montgomery Burns]

ps ,there is a German method used to make iron look blue ,,,
but its a little different to anything described here ,,,,
its a layer of sulphur lead on top of the metal

maybe ,,,already ,,,names of method and treatment of iron are mixed up.
and used wrongly .

the method Tiger describes is called in Germany Swiss black ,,( period books )
and will not turn out blue ,,,
I name it earlier in this thread as the second of method used in Germany.




regards kay

[Montgomery Burns]

hhhhmmmm

[uhu1944]

Another chemicals blued core ,not painted
regards
Sławek

[Montgomery Burns]

I give up on this point.

I pass

I wil ask Don to remove all my comments out of the thread .






regards kay

[Robert P.]

It is clearly evident (to me) that many blued crosses posted here have a 'gun-blued' appearance. That alone leads me to believe that the process used to 'blue' the cores is quite similar, if not exactly the same, as the method used to blue a pistol. I don't believe cores on these 'blued' crosses were 'painted'. I believe they were soaked in a chemical bath until the correct blue-black appearance was achieved. I don't have one of these 'blued' crosses, yet. But, when I do find one I'm going to examine it very closely.

Thank you for posting photos of your crosses, Kay. I've been so busy lately with life's priorities I haven't had a chance to closely examine and photo/post some of my blackened crosses like you asked me to. But, they're coming in due time.

Robert

[gregM]

I would happily take a picture of my blued core Eks next to
a Luger if someone would care to send me a Luger