WWI Award Spange on a WWII GJ tunic

[Ostmark]

Forgot to mention that the rank of the vet was Oberst and he fought in
the Kuban pocket, maybe in an GJ regiment from austria

Here is a pic

[Ostmark]

Thanks for all your help

[Don D.]

An Oberst in WW2 would make him a junior officer in WW1 so the Iron Crown would not fit....

[Dave Danner]

An Oberst in WW2 would make him a junior officer in WW1 so the Iron Crown would not fit....

Actually, the Iron Crown is not uncommon among Austro-Hungarian in the Wehrmacht. Some examples:

• Oberst (1.3.42) Cornelius Albrecht
• Oberst (1.12.42) Freidrich Bauer
• Oberstlt. (1.2.42) Rudolf Berghofer
• Oberstlt. (1.3.42) Emmerich Freiherr von Boxberg
• Oberst (1.4.39) Johann Burba
• Oberst (1.4.42) Franz Hintermayer
• Oberst (1.12.40) Richard Pribyl
• Oberst (1.4.42) Martin Strahammer

Strahammer is probably the most highly decorated of these:

• Large Silver Bravery Medal (1915)
• Bronze Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal (1915)
• Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration (1916)
• Karl Truppenkreuz (1917)
• Iron Cross 2nd Class (1917)
• Silver Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal (1917)
• Clasp to the Silver Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal (1918)
• Order of the Iron Crown 3rd Class with Swords and War Decoration (1918)
• Large Silver Bravery Medal for Officers (1918)
• Wound Medal with 3 Stripes
• 1939 War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Swords (8.40)
• 1939 Clasp to the EK2 (4.7.41)
• 1939 EK1 (5.8.41)
• Infantry Assault Badge (7.12.41)
• Knight's Cross (30.1.42, Kdr. Pz.Jg.Abt. 240)
• Eastern Front Medal (15.8.42)
• Crimea Shield (23.8.42)
• Gold Wound Badge (2.2.43)
• German Cross in Gold (11.3.43, Fhr. GR 266)
• Oakleaves to the Knight's Cross (11.8.44, Kdr. GR 146)

But even he comes nowhere near this ribbon bar. As has been stated, there is no good reason to believe that the bar is accurate, since the combination is well-nigh impossible and these clip-on ribbons can easily by manipulated. And there is no reason to assume the bar must go with the uniform, as museums routinely play around with these things over the years.

[peterm]

An Oberst in WW2 would make him a junior officer in WW1 so the Iron Crown would not fit....

Hi Don!

There are also Leutnants and Oberleutnants in the Austro-Hungarian Army who won the Iron Crown-order IIIrd class (e.g. Oberleutnant Kern from IR 14).

But I say it again: For me this ribbon-bar is constructed from original parts but never existed for a real soldier of WWI.

One of the best-know private museums in Austria is the "Wehrmachts-Museum" in Lower Austria. You can (or could, wasn't there in the last years) find fine original pieces and also DOZENS of mistakes like this riboon bar.

Kind regards, Peter

[Don D.]

Correct Peter but how many of them would have started off as an enlisted guy? That is the rub here. Given the number of bravery medal ribbons he has every bravery award possible from the bronze thru the gold. He would have been the Audie Murphy of Austria.

[Dave Danner]

Correct Peter but how many of them would have started off as an enlisted guy? That is the rub here. Given the number of bravery medal ribbons he has every bravery award possible from the bronze thru the gold. He would have been the Audie Murphy of Austria.

Don, if my sample is as random as it gets, about one in eight. Of the eight above, Martin Strahammer was the only one who started off enlisted. He was a one-year volunteer in 1912-13, and was commissioned a Leutnant on 1 May 1915. He got his Large Silver Bravery Medal as a Reserve-Fähnrich. He's about as close to Audie Murphy as one could get.

But even he would only have at most five bravery medal ribbons, assuming he wore the plain one for the first bravery medal separate from the later one with the "K" device. And all the others would have devices - swords on the MVK and the bronze MVM and silver bar and swords on the silver MVM.

[Don D.]

We need to get into the Wayback machine and go tell the authorities to come up with different ribbons.

[peterm]

Correct Peter but how many of them would have started off as an enlisted guy? That is the rub here. Given the number of bravery medal ribbons he has every bravery award possible from the bronze thru the gold. He would have been the Audie Murphy of Austria.

Not even ONE, Don! Therefore I don't believe in this bar as a real one for a real existing soldier!
Maybe I didn't understand You right. I thought You meant, that there were no (Ober-)Leutnants who were awarded an "Iron Crown Order".

Kind regards, Peter

[Don D.]

I think we are in agreement then.