WWI Award Spange on a WWII GJ tunic

[Ostmark]

Hello

Got a GJ tunic with an original mounted WWI area award ribbon

I could figure out what awards are on this spange:

4x Taperkeits Band für Frontkämpfer
3x Tapferkeitsband mit Schwerternfür Frontkämpfer
1x Österreichisch Kaiserlicher Orden der Eisernen Krone
mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer

I hope thats correct google was my friend ;-)

Here is a pic of the tunic

[Ostmark]

As this is not my field of collecting i have some questions to get a clue

- Why are there so many ribbons always representing the same bravery award
- Is the Österreichisch Kaiserlicher Orden der Eisernen Krone
mit Schwertern some kind of a higher bravery award
- Is this award spange representing a lets say brave WWI soldier

A link to a website explaining the bestowal of this awards would be also very appreciated, i could not find something usefull in the net till now

Br Herbert

[Valter Gorenc]

My knowledge is also limited, but you're, right, Herbert, Eiserner krone is higher award.

The other "generic AH bravery ribbons" can be several different awards: Officer's Military merit cross; Austrian iron cross (there are grades with and without crown; Signum laudis - grades in bronze, silver and gold; Merit cross (AKA Franz Josef cross) - grades in silver and gold, with and without a crown; bravery medals in bronze, silver and gold (bronze only for soliders, so this is out of question here, as Iron crown was officers award only); many of these can be awarded several times. It's still a quite unusual ribbon bar, although not impossible: MMC, 2 Signum laudis, 2 FJ crosses; 2 bravery medals. Other combinations are possible too.

[Ostmark]

Forgot to say thanks a lot for your help

[Don D.]

Where is the Karltruppen Kreuz?

[Dave Danner]

Where is the Karltruppen Kreuz?

There could be a missing second row with the KTK, a wound medal, and any other commemoratives and non-Austrian awards.

I have no idea if the ribbon bar really originally went with the tunic.

Still, this is a lot of bravery medal ribbons for one person. As Valter says, quite unusual but perhaps not impossible,

I agree that after the Iron Crown, the three bravery ribbons with swords would most likely be the Military Merit Cross and a Silver and a Bronze Signum Laudis. Four bravery medals seems odd, though, for an officer with sufficient officer service to get the Iron Crown.

In all the officer personnel files I have reviewed, I don't think I've encountered an Austrian with more than 5 bravery medal ribbons, and even then they had other devices like the "K" for the Gold Bravery Medal for officers or a silver Spange for multiple awards of the same class of an award.

[peterm]

I don't think that this is a real wartime ribbonbar. I think it's a put-together using original parts.

Kind regards, Peter

[peterm]

My knowledge is also limited, but you're, right, Herbert, Eiserner krone is higher award.

The other "generic AH bravery ribbons" can be several different awards: Officer's Military merit cross; Austrian iron cross (there are grades with and without crown; Signum laudis - grades in bronze, silver and gold; Merit cross (AKA Franz Josef cross) - grades in silver and gold, with and without a crown; bravery medals in bronze, silver and gold (bronze only for soliders, so this is out of question here, as Iron crown was officers award only); many of these can be awarded several times. It's still a quite unusual ribbon bar, although not impossible: MMC, 2 Signum laudis, 2 FJ crosses; 2 bravery medals. Other combinations are possible too.

Hi Valter!

a) There is NO grade in gold for Military-Merit-Medals ("Signum laudis"), only bronze and silver.
Only the "LARGE Military-Merit-Medal" is existing in gold. This one has been awarded only 17 times, we can forget about that for the ribbonbar in question here.
b) Bravery medals in bronze, silver and gold are only for enlisted men, non-commissioned-officers and Fähnriche.
Kaiser Karl introduced the "Bravery-medals I. Class in silver and gold for officers", but this we also can forget concerning the ribbonbar in this thread.

Kind regards,

Peter

[Valter Gorenc]

Peter,
thanks for pointing this out.

I was wrong about Signum laudis in three grades (yes, the large one is out of ? here), but about bravery medals I don't think they could be ruled out at once. I saw many pictures of (junior) officers wearing small and/or large silver bravery medals. Probably many of them were former kadets or NCOs that were promoted to officers during the war.

But I agree this bar seems unlikely, too many bravery ribbons, as you pointed out, and missing any other ribbons, like Karl's cross, as Don pointed.

[pzrwest]

How would one figure out what medals the seven red and white ribbons stand for

[Don D.]

The ribbons without the swords are Bravery medals. No sword was required for those. The ones with swords are for awards that could be for merit or bravery like the Signum Laudis, F-J orders etc... Sometimes you just have to look at the possible rank of the guy, officer or enlisted/nco. Sometimes it is just an educated guess.

[Dave Danner]

Peter,
thanks for pointing this out.

I was wrong about Signum laudis in three grades (yes, the large one is out of ? here), but about bravery medals I don't think they could be ruled out at once. I saw many pictures of (junior) officers wearing small and/or large silver bravery medals. Probably many of them were former kadets or NCOs that were promoted to officers during the war.

But I agree this bar seems unlikely, too many bravery ribbons, as you pointed out, and missing any other ribbons, like Karl's cross, as Don pointed.

The most bravery medals you could wear at one time should be four: gold, large silver, small silver and bronze. For multiple awards of the same class, you would see a Wiederholungsspange on the ribbon. Given that the Bronze Bravery Medal was introduced in 1915, it would be quite a stretch for an officer candidate to get one each of all the bravery medals, then get commissioned, and then accumulate enough rank and awards to get the Iron Crown.

It is remotely possible that someone could get the bronze, small silver, large silver, and gold in rapid succession in 1915 and 1916, then get commissioned and get the bronze Signum Laudis, silver Signum Laudis, Military Merit Cross, and Iron Crown in rapid succession from then to 1918. But that would be quite a run.

Then, you might have a second row of ribbons with some combination of the Wound Medal, KTK, Tirol LDM, Carinthian Cross, and/or Austrian, German, Bulgarian and Hungarian WW1 commemoratives.

But again, that would be quite a run. I have reviewed dozens of personnel files of Wehrmacht veterans of the Austro-Hungarian Army and have not seen anyone close to this.

Regards

[Ostmark]

Hello

Thanks for all your comments

The tunic and ribbon bar was in a museums collection. So most likley it was overhanded from the vets family (but thats just a guess). This museum had to quit the WWII collection because of a new owner and sold all tunics and TR stuff. A collectors friend was lucky to get this tunic and sold it to me. No one ever mentioned the ribbon bar. So i think this ribbon bar is a original piece but to be sure i will post some more pics

I will try to get in contact with the ex owner of museum and hope to get more information about this tunic and ribbon bar in question, maybe he still knows who overhanded this items to him

Here are some pics of the ribbon bar:

[Ostmark]

Front

[Ostmark]

Detail