1916 Sawback Bayonet

[RobertCOUTTS]

Sawback

I have seen an increase in prices for sawbacks. Recently Lakesider had a couple the 98-05 low ears flashguard with metal scabbard was $450 and went in a few days the 84-98 $375 and its now on hold. On ebay they usually fetch $300-$500. I keep an eye out as I like these bayonets and am looking to acquire some more if I ever find any at a reasonable price.
cheers Robert

[Hoss]

That's true Robert the prices went crazy then dipped and are on the rise again, which beats me apart from certain makers they are not rare. I particularly like the high eared S98/05aA early examples.
Regarding this bluing late in the war the Germans did start bluing blades, has a particular color to it not seen during the TR period. imo. Most collectors decades ago mistakenly buffed this off thinking it a post war process that hit the value of their collections. Certainly by 1917 years end production of the S98/05 had stopped but some may have been mistakenly stamped 1918.
The 'date' 1920 on crossguards mean't it was allowed for post war military service as per Treaty conditions, most were stamped after the year 1920. This stamp 'mark' is often also seen on the authorised Kar98A and Gew98 rifle.

Eric

[sb98]

... Certainly by 1917 years end production of the S98/05 had stopped but some may have been mistakenly stamped 1918...
Eric

Sawbacks, but S98/05's were still being made in 1918.

How could something be marked by mistake with a date in the future? Do you mean they started stamping "18" in 1917 on some sawbacks.. or non-sawbacks?

[ROBB]

What are low ears ? Rob

[sb98]

What are low ears ? Rob

Old Smithy's website has a description of the different variations, he mentions low and high ears (it's the part that would be a full muzzle ring on other bayonets). http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/...variations.htm

[Steve Campbell]

I have seen an increase in prices for sawbacks. Recently Lakesider had a couple the 98-05 low ears flashguard with metal scabbard was $450 and went in a few days the 84-98 $375 and its now on hold. On ebay they usually fetch $300-$500. I keep an eye out as I like these bayonets and am looking to acquire some more if I ever find any at a reasonable price.
cheers Robert

Prices have jumped by the sounds of it. I picked my two up at a show in 2008, but never paid that much.

[Hoss]

Sawbacks, but S98/05's were still being made in 1918.

How could something be marked by mistake with a date in the future? Do you mean they started stamping "18" in 1917 on some sawbacks.. or non-sawbacks?

In '17 when they stopped making the S98/05 a bayo requiring a date stamp would be such done the following year hence the '18 sawback. By '17 most front line units had withdrawn the 05 and been issued the 84/98 and ersatz side arms anyway.

The 05 was always unpopular being heavy and initial mean't to hook around the quillon and snap off the opponents blade in the classic so called fencing duel. Those of us old and fortunate enough to talk with front line German captured soldiers who never went home post W1 recalled never having to fix bayonets just using them as a trench tool. The Brits I talked too had to think hard and look at each other to remember seeing a German with a bayonet affixed to his rifle at all! They remembered the horrible machine guns though and the bombardments.

The classic W1 propaganda of the Hun charging with a blood dripping sawback is pure nonsense appeased by the Germans who concluded they were virtually useless in modern warfare instead comes from the unfortunate caught with, captured pioneer tech and in some cases machine gunners equipment.

Eric

[sb98]

In '17 when they stopped making the S98/05 a bayo requiring a date stamp would be such done the following year hence the '18 sawback. By '17 most front line units had withdrawn the 05 and been issued the 84/98 and ersatz side arms anyway.

The 05 was always unpopular being heavy and initial mean't to hook around the quillon and snap off the opponents blade in the classic so called fencing duel. Those of us old and fortunate enough to talk with front line German captured soldiers who never went home post W1 recalled never having to fix bayonets just using them as a trench tool. The Brits I talked too had to think hard and look at each other to remember seeing a German with a bayonet affixed to his rifle at all! They remembered the horrible machine guns though and the bombardments.

The classic W1 propaganda of the Hun charging with a blood dripping sawback is pure nonsense appeased by the Germans who concluded they were virtually useless in modern warfare instead comes from the unfortunate caught with, captured pioneer tech and in some cases machine gunners equipment.

Eric

Eric,

S98/05 stands for "Seitengewehr 98/05", not "sawback 98/05". If you're referring to just sawbacks, you're calling them the wrong name. Officially, "S 98/05 nA" would be non-sawbacks made at that point, and "S 98/05 nA S" would be a sawback. If you mean all S98/05's ceased production in 1917 I believe you're mistaken. Anthony Carter lists 12 manufactures producing bayonets that year in his book on the subject.

[Hoss]

Eric,

S98/05 stands for "Seitengewehr 98/05", not "sawback 98/05". If you're referring to just sawbacks, you're calling them the wrong name. Officially, "S 98/05 nA" would be non-sawbacks made at that point, and "S 98/05 nA S" would be a sawback. If you mean all S98/05's ceased production in 1917 I believe you're mistaken. Anthony Carter lists 12 manufactures producing bayonets that year in his book on the subject.

Correct Tim
I put S that would just mean 'side arm' before 98/05, my mistake talking generally about the sawback butcher bayonet. Sorry, a rushed typo on my part.

Regards
Eric

[martin guerre]

I saw last weekend a very nice sawback with no marking on scabbard and no marking on the bayonet too...it was with a brown leather frog BKA Marked ...
1918 production...?
I will see it next sunday and i need your opinion...the seller want euros 200 for it..
Thank for your help
Martin