Bavarian pilot badge

[makov25]

Das this badge look real or it's fake.
It has maker mark "Carl Poellath Schrobenhausen Silber"
Thank you, Glenn

[makov25]

reveres of this badge

[Tim Tezer]

IMHO, this badge is a fake. I see a lot of them floating around, and a lot of very respectable dealers sell them because A) their opinion is different from mine, B) they are not as paranoid as I am, or C) they simply haven't found out the awful truth yet.

Tim

[stogieman]

Agree with Tim

... I like to see a bit more depth to these badges. But having said that, IMO impossible to judge this badge from photos. I just purchased a very interesting Bavarian Pilot Badge in Germany. Actually, a group to a Bavarian Pilot, I'll post up pix of everything when it arrives from Germany. I was quite lucky, right place at the right time!

[WW1wingman]

.....pictures tell more than words can portray...

...maybe not on this occassion. The front looks fine,and the stamping with the spelling of Karl with a "C" is a good sign...(iam not enering the debate on Karl or Carl !!!)With reference to the rear what i dont like is the lack of depth around the crown and the hinge looks a little suspect. Without handling i would stir clear.

As always if in doubt dont buy !! if its cheap buy !!!!
Steve WW1wingman

****** I am always purchasing Original WW1 aviator badges ,please contact ********

[Tony & Kaiser]

..the stamping with the spelling of Karl with a "C" is a good sign...(iam not enering the debate on Karl or Carl !!!)

Too late. You just did. If you do a search on this forum you will find research that the spelling Karl Pöllath was used prior to and during the war, and Carl Poellath after the war, and this latter is the spelling found on nazi tinnies, paper wrappers for War merit crosses, and yes, it shows up on Bayern flight badges. So the name issue is sorted out.

Glenn, my concern about the badge shown, is that it has a very distinctive casting flaw on the reverse, right side of the top hinge. I have seen this flaw many times on these badges.

However, these badges with that little casing flaw are still of very good quality. Look at the rear seam where the edge meets the backing plate, very nice, far beyond the normal crap seen on a copy. The problem is that these badges with the absolutely identical casting mark shows up from time to time with one of two names on the back, Karl Pöllath or Carl Poelath. I find this very odd?

Please note that I am not saying these are bad, as I have never handled one. But I am very suspicious when two badges with different maker marks having identical die strike marks show up. When I collected Third Reich (yes yes, I admit it ) if I had found a Nazi war badge, with two different makers that came from the same die, that means someone other than the maker, making the same badge but adding on different makers to satisfy Joe-public collector. As well, these badges that come with the flaw, although very nice, are still substantially different and a much lower quality than Karl Pöllath badges with the smooth center section on the reverse.

Personally, I think it is too much money to spend on a "could be?". But, you will have to be the final judge. Good luck with what-ever you decide, Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com

[WW1wingman]

All in the spelling of the name ummmm

Having refreshed my memory by re reading the previous debate on the spelling of Karl or Carl on flight badges it seems that it was not concluded.

No one can be certain as to which came first as both markings appear on genuine flight badges.

I am not making any sweeping statements on the Bavarian pilots badge as to be certain you would need to take in many factors. Having collected flight badges for twenty five years i know a real one when i handle it . The old sixth sense kicks in ,if i get a gut feeling somethings wrong it usually is !!
good luck with the debate !!
SF

[Tony & Kaiser]

The old sixth sense kicks in ,if i get a gut feeling somethings wrong it usually is !!

Very true Steve.

Re: the "debate", it shifted from a 30 page monster about the names, to a seperate thread after contacting the city archivist in Schrobenhausen, link to that thread below.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20228

A random search on ebay will occasionally turn up late 1800s (often dated) religious items marked Karl Pöllath. This ties in with what the city Archives in Schrobenhausen confirmed, as well as a shift to military badges which explains the small number of flight badges marked the same. The religious article continue after the war, but now the spelling is Carl Poellath and Nazi tinnies etc appear with this spelling.

But really, why anyone would buy a badge based on the spelling of the name and ignore the quality is beyond me. I sure you would agree. As you said, that "sixth sense" should be listened too . Tony

[stogieman]

Steve....

... why don't you show us some of your badges??

[WW1wingman]

any one want some eye candy....

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=pilot
That ones mine, i have a problem sizing my pics,if any one wishes to post some for me,tell me what you want to see and i will email the pics for you to post!!

French WW1 sea plane pilot
French pilot WW1
French airgunner WW1
French Fix over 3" variety
French Fix mini WW1
French pilot WW1 PRINZEN US miniture type
French pilot OFFICER brassard
French O/Rs brassard armband
RFC 1912 pattern brass gilt wings
RFC mess wings two air vents to rear
RFC Cloth wings
RFC silvergilt thread bullion wings
RAF 1918 variant wing
RNAS gold /ruby eye mess wing
RNAS breast eagle to air vents to rear
South African Aviation Flying Corps shoulder title
SAAFC NCOS cap badge
US Navy 1917 rolled gold wings
US(Dan Dunham wing Texas)
US mustach wing
Prussian boxed pilots with award certificate
Prussian Observer
Bavarian Observer
Bavarian Airgunner
Prinzen sea plane
Prinzen land pilot
Austrian "Rothe" pilots Ex Flayderman
Russian Imperial WW1 pilots
Prussian panzer
Austrian Uboat presentation badge named in box of issue
etc etc etc etc
Hopefully that will keep a little bit of interest....like i said if anyone want to post pics just email me stephen.french4@ntlworld.com
Regards
WW1wingman

I have other bits which i may discuss at a later date !! its just time that seems to be limited for me !!

PS iam always wanting to buy unusual rarities WW1 or 2 !!