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A letter from the director of city archives Schrobenhausen

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    A letter from the director of city archives Schrobenhausen

    Hello all, rather than contact a company that may have no idea of their past, or simply not have access to historical documentation, I sent a letter in German to city hall in Schrobenhausen and asked that they forward it to their archivist. It was a formal research request as to the origins of the names Carl Poellath/Karl Pöllath in Schrobenhausen Germany in regards to the period of 1914 to 1918. Today, I received a letter from the director of the city archives of Schrobenhausen Germany. Here is the translation of the letter I received.

    The firm of Carl Poellath/Karl Pöllath is in fact, the same firm. Records show that the firm has during the past used any two different ways of writing. The 1st Carl Poellath and 2nd Karl Pöllath. Here is a small history of this company which is the same company, which still exists today as Carl Poellath. In the year 1778 the Nadler (Needle maker) Johann Christoph Abraham set up residence in Schrobenhausen. He manufactured needles and buttons. After his death the Needle maker Carl Poellath married the widow Abrahams and took over the workshop. Poellath developed a method to produce articles, which previously were only manufactured by casting, with percussive tools and received a ten-year patent. The firm manufactured buttons, collar hooks, latches and buckles in large quantities and called the firm a button and hard barrel goods factory. A century back, the company production went gradually into religious articles such as rosaries, religious travel memories, holy pictures and religious brochures and sheets. It was then considered a devotional production firm. Around 1900 George Hitl changed the product range. They began to produce coinage of artist medals, everyday coins and association medals. Military medals and decorations followed. Poellath is today one of the prominent enterprises in the production and refinement of customer-requested articles, with clients from industry, authorities, political parties, churches, federations, and associations.

    So the e-mails from the present company staff by Stogie R and Translator and this research request show that Carl Poellath/Karl Pöllath are the same company. I admit that I am surprised at this, but there it is. They have changed owners over the centuries, which may explain the name variation. They only began venturing into military badges during the 1st world war, and that they branched into other areas after the war, as the Nazi tinnies show. It also appears that they from the end of the great war until today, only use the name Poellath. Tony
    Last edited by Tony & Kaiser; 03-11-2003, 04:20 PM.

    #2
    Tony,

    I believe your research has proved the most conclusive. Well done!

    T.

    Comment


      #3
      Aha! Excellent!

      If any of us were over there, or if such things existed, a peek through old City Directories or phone books (don't laugh-- I have one from the Augsburg Region, 1941, stamped "Only For Service Use, To Be Destroyed When Replaced" which it obviously wasn't!) might have worked too.

      In my own family's case, in 1916 here we were all nicely listed with the other Scandinavians and Germans WITH our accent mark: Lundström, but from 1917 that was Officially Dropped as "un-American" and "Lundstrom" until I resumed the correct spelling.

      Comment


        #4
        Super!

        Excellent work (and fantasy! ), Tony!

        George
        George

        Comment


          #5
          Well done Tony!
          We have seen however, posted in this forum, Pollaths stamped from different dies and Poellaths stamped from different dies. Ergo some must be original and others not. Which be which? Unless someone has additional information at this time, workmanship and quality would seem to be a major consideration.

          Comment


            #6
            Well done Tony,
            I think the "great debate" was finally worth it. I think that now we can accept both forms of spelling as correct due to all the evidence presented, but let's remember that these have been faked and it is still the superb quality of the originals that we have to look for before we accept one as real regardless as to how it is marked.

            Cheers,
            Brett

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Tony,

              A great effort on your part is justly rewarded!

              In the Loooong Bay Pilot's Badge thread I mentioned a "holy card" which appeared to have the Pöllath marking (seller indicated circa 1920) - very interesting to note that Pöllath/Poellath was heavily into this sort of material, especially pre WW1. When I have some good images of the maker's mark on the card to post, I'll do so.

              RKHunter has a vaild point though - now that Pöllath has been confirmed to have been a valid marking, which of the Pilot's and Observer Badges are genuine Pöllath/Poellath examples and which of them are repro Pöllath/Poellath??? I have my suspicions and it comes back to quality/detail.

              Regards
              Mike K
              Regards
              Mike

              Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

              If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

              Comment


                #8
                It's nice to see that this thread appears to have general agreement. This research has convinced me that I was wrong about their being two companies, so I have changed my web page on Flieger badges to reflect this. Crow is delicious with the right sauce!

                There is one factor that must be considered, and that is the fact that a manufacturer like Junckers appeared to make at least two different qualities of badges both with identical stamps.

                1. Rayed back ultra-high quality;and
                2. Flat back lower quality.

                I assume we are all in agreement on this. I am also led to believe Junckers made a stamped hollow unmarked badge, but I have not see evidence of this personally, but I would not be surprised that it is true.

                So, just like Junckers, there may have been various qualities of original badges marked Pöllath and Poellath depending on what the purchaser could afford. And just like Junckers, original and fake badges marked by both Pöllath and Poellath almost certainly exist.

                I think this is a good lesson for all of us, that we should look at the quality and construction of the badge first, and take the maker's mark into consideration as part of that assessment. If I may quote Stogie Rick, he had some sound advice in regards to badges overall: "Each of us will need to make their own decision on what they are willing to accept in their collections. I will always respect another collector's opinion or position, irrespective of whether or not I agree with it.

                It is after all, a hobby, right? Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com
                Last edited by Tony & Kaiser; 03-13-2003, 09:09 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  very good research!
                  my knowledge is growing and growing since i joined the forum.
                  thanks christian

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think this proves the power of opinion: NULL.



                    The company changing hands and playing around with its name makes sense.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi,

                      I adding the image of this card as promised. As you will see, the SAME CARD uses the 2 (two) DIFFERENT SPELLINGS of Pöllath/Poellath, although both use Carl as opposed to Karl (different scripts though) Again, the seller indicated an age for the card of circa 1920 (I guess that means +- 5 years, although I've seen Poellath marked tinnies from commemerative events in the mid 1920's so I'd be leaning to wartime or immediately post-war useage of the Pöllath spelling).

                      Regards
                      Mike K
                      Attached Files
                      Regards
                      Mike

                      Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                      If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        <marquee behavior=alternate>Wooo Wooo Wooo Ding Ding Ding</marquee>


                        Thanks Mike!!!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks Mike for making the effort to purchase the Poellath item above. It proves that Poellath were using the two different forms of spelling even on the SAME item! It has all been an eye-opener and I suppose we can apply some of this to other makers of awards and badges of the period.

                          Cheers,
                          Brett

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