Helmut Weitze

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Kampfwagenabzeichen

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    #46
    Hi Don,
    im not trying to argue with you, i just dont take things as they are told, if not plausible.

    - Your next to last quote, makes me suppose a missunderstanding. Of course they are stamped of a sheet of metal: that is what a punch does.

    - Concerning your very interesting question: how many were awarded?
    Now taking the known figures, there where no more than 25 A7V-Tanks builded before the ending of the war! This figure includes the prototipes and the tests with wooden mock-up and those not delivered at the time of the armistice, training tanks....
    To this we have to add 170 British captured Tanks (i am rounding up) from wich not all where functional. Only 120 were refurbished and came into action.

    That leaves +/- 145 Tanks in action. Lets say 150 for ease of calculation. The crew of a A7V where 18 men, lets say 20. The Mark-Tanks dindt have even half of that but lets assume 20 men also.
    150 Tanks with a crew of 20 Men gives 3000 men who did fight in a Tank during WW1 on German side.
    ..... Casualties, yes. Dont forget about them. We should suppose that at least halve of these men could have been wounded, injured got killed or just deseased, and we need to suppose the tank would bee still in service.
    This leaves us with more or less 4500 men. Which looks realistic to me considering that the entire German Tank program were functional ONLY on the last 18 Month of the War and relyed mostly on Beutepanzer.
    So i estimate that there should be no more than, rounding up again, 5000 badges awarded.

    Therfore any badge i come across has to prove itself, or stay away.

    Do you have other figures? or another thought?

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      #47
      Probably 1000 or so.
      pseudo-expert

      Comment


        #48
        Hi there,
        i think its a rather conservative figure. But however, doesnt it sound strange to you that having been awarded only 1000 badges there are so many variations? Here in the forum alone we saw at least 3 completely different designs.

        I think it is very improbable all of them being real and original. Impossible.

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          #49
          Really? The Legion Condor Tank Badge was awarded 518 or so times and there are four or more makers for it. The kampfwagonabzeichen was awarded or purchased over a 20+ year period as well.
          pseudo-expert

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            #50
            There weren't very many PlMs issued and could all have been created by one manufacturer, but there were more.

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              #51
              Bringing this back to the top. I just received COL Pandis' books and he has an Prussian Pilot's badge Marked Werner & Sohne with the same type of pin as the thread starter. Bade is supposedly attributed to a Lt. Bormann. (Pandis- Imperial Flight Badges Vol 2, pg 184.)

              Pandis show's a second one attributed to Lt. Niclioa along with a picture of the badge in wear in a period photo. (Pandis- Flight Badges of the Central Powers, pg 141)
              pseudo-expert

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                #52
                I always thought Giels looked right.

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                  #53
                  EDIT: all deleted, because:

                  sorry wrong thread!

                  I can't delete post
                  Last edited by elbavaro; 04-26-2020, 04:45 AM. Reason: sorry wrong thread!

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Sorry again!

                    I tried to responde to this thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...26#post8708026, mixed up the links, didn't check and then answered.

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                      #55
                      Correct me if I´m wrong....
                      but I think that meanwhile the threadstarter badge (with the outlines around the grenades) is considered to be a fake.
                      Regards
                      Hagrid

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Yes indeed. During the last 25 years I compared a lot of original pictures from the period 1921 to 1945 and pictures of awarded persons (here also from after 1945).

                        From that I can confirm that 100% of these photos did show:
                        a) NO outlines anywhere
                        b) real bow ties and NO bow with square holes

                        Contrariwise it means: every badge which shows one or both of that ar definately fakes. It doesn't matter what Quality it is made of, or how the reverse looks like, what pinset it shows or if it is solid, hollow or, or, or …. it will be what it is: a fake.

                        For those who like to read it in German: http://h2385226.stratoserver.net/wbb...bzeichens-kwa/

                        Bear in mind: don't buy stories, buy awards. And as a buyer you don't have to proof it is a fake, but the seller has to bring up the evidences why his badge is an original one; especially when it is different to the well known originals.

                        Regards
                        Chris

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