Godet Wideframe opinions please

[morel5000]

Hi

This cores are used in Meybauer,

although I don't think the frames are a match...

Best regards,
Michel

[Kraal]

Hi there.

These crosses are not from Meybauer.

The 2nd Classes of these crosses use the common Godet Cores, fine so far. As you can see, the frames lack the quality of common Godets. I hardly assume that they are totally late war productions of rather poor quality (Look at KO for example, same thing, different maker).

For the 1st Class we have to devide them in early and late productions. The early production row is already shown in Post #4. It uses cores that can be found by Meybauer, yes, nontheless it´s a Godet. I don´t know why they exchanged the cores, but they did. Well, the Godet Frames + different core is the 1st Version of those wideframes. It´s still a little bit smaller than the later wideframe.

The 2nd Version matches the shown latewar EK2s, but as well uses the uncommon core. As well as the 2nd classes it´s made of poorer quality and has different frames than the 1st Verion, as the 2nd class fom latewar Godets do as well. It´s identical to the shown 2nd classes but a 1st class. Notice it´s typical Godet needle.

[Kraal]

At the moment in the Thies Auction there is a period made Hindenburgstern, showing a late war Godet Example mounted on the star. It´s marked with DRGM. Nice and even nicer in condition.

[morel5000]

He Kraal,

could you post the pictures please?

Best regards,
Michel

[Kraal]

Sorry, it´s a srewback with cross-alike backplate, and the backplate is marked DRGM.

Here is a frontpic

[fabri-online]

Hallo Andy

maybe they are not Meybauers but in this example cross has a stamp, same position where PM marked their EKIs.

[Kraal]

Just an ordinary 800 mark

[fabri-online]

Ah ok, thanks

[streptile]

Andy and Trevor tell me Im way off (thanks) and its a Wide frame Godet with an added Meybauer screw ...

I've changed my opinion of this cross and now believe it to be a good, period Godet variant with the correct hardware to the reverse.

[Von Eisen]

Thats very interesting Trevor, can you please elaborate on what has brought you to this conclusion.

[gregM]

Not to be a nay-sayer but I have always believed this style of pin
and narrow hinge block to be from Meybaurer.

[streptile]

Not to be a nay-sayer but I have always believed this style of pin and narrow hinge block to be from Meybaurer.

I agree, Greg. I am only talking about the thread-starter.

Simon, I've come to this conclusion after weighing all the evidence. If that sounds trite, I guess it is...

I've seen more and more crosses with this same setup, leading me to believe that the cross goes with the reverse hardware. I've seen five or six just since I began looking a few months ago -- even one in-hand. You know, at first these just seem like unmarked Meybauers, so I look, smile and move on. But when I began looking more closely I noticed that the frame is not the Meybauer frame, but this frame, and none are ever marked, either with Meybauer's shield or "PM" on the nut -- nothing. The markings are always consistent across these types -- always the same marks, same placement, never a Meybauer mark anywhere to be seen, always the Godet frame and Godet/Meybauer core. So I concluded that no one could have so effectively swapped these parts so consistently on to these crosses. The reverse hardware has to be native to the cross.

So if the hardware is native to the cross, the next question is, who made it? I thought it was Godet's frame, core and 800 stamp. So my guess was Godet. The DRGM nut is not a Maybauer-specific nut. Anyone could use it. "PM" marked nuts are a different story, but these aren't. So that doesn't deter me from thinking Godet used it. So far so good. Then at the SOS I held one of these. I'm no clairvoyant, but I have handled a few Godets and there is a certain way they are built, a certain level of quality and finish, that is consistent to the maker. The one I held fit the bill. Not that it could not have been by another maker, but it certainly seemed consistent with Godet's style and workmanship to me. The Hindenburgstern posted by Andy was the last piece of the puzzle for me. Godet was the known maker of these, right up to and including the Third Reich 1939 unissued versions. So Thies' example, with this same cross and hardware in the center, with the Godet core and frame, clinched it.

I don't see any contradiction with Godet using two different screwback setups. Many makers did. Maybe they were made concurrently, maybe consecutively, I really don't know. But, until some more evidence comes along to change my mind, I am perfectly convinced we are seeing a good through-and-through Godet variant here.

[Von Eisen]

Interesting post Trevor, thanks.

Im pleased you have come across other examples ... I hope other owners see this thread and post theirs, Id like to see more

I was wondering what hardware lay at the reverse of that Hindenburgstern BTW, its most gratifying to see it is the same DRGM nut and cruciform plate.

[Mike Kenny]

Given that Godet and Meybauer both used the same two core types (and only those two core types) and given that both a Berlin based, I have a strong suspicion that they worked together at times, or at least sourced from each other at times.

As such, the other possibility for these shared core + Godet frame + Meybauer X-disk and DRGM nut (and I have only seen that DRGM screwnut associated with Meybauer items and I believe they probably held the patent - someone needs to prove me wrong on that point!) is that Meybauer bought a batch of Godet made EK1s and added their own hardware.

Another type of cross, aside from the ones above, that suggest an association between Godet and Meyabuer, is a pinback variation which has a Meybauer-like pin but a chunky Godet catch.

Regards
Mike

[Tiger 1]

The Hindenburgstern posted by Andy was the last piece of the puzzle for me. Godet was the known maker of these, right up to and including the Third Reich 1939 unissued versions. So Thies' example, with this same cross and hardware in the center, with the Godet core and frame, clinched it.

Since the Hindenburgstern was only awarded to one individual, the original award being by Godet, simply means that the rest regardless of maker are display pieces.

The question remains then is when a particular display version was actually made and by whom. I have two in my collection. One is made by S&L during the war years. The EK I on the star is an S&L made cross that exactly matches another TR era 1914 EKI that is double marked 4 and L/16 on the pin. This EKI is shown in Dietrich's Iron Cross book.

Virtually all the copies of the Hindenburgstern have had the EK attached to the star with a small domed disc plated the same as the star itself or had the EK riveted to the star via one or two domed rivets.

I don't know where the star shown here originated but the multiple piece screw attachment and the pin and catch set up seem to be redundant. I am puzzled why the screw set up was not plated to match the star?

Just curious.

Tony