May I show you another PlM?

[Pas de croix]

Gentlemen, I have come across this PlM.
I have read “A 'Study of' the Pour le Merite series”
and I cannot find any similarity to Wagner, Rothe or Godet (or S&L) styles. No marks or stamps. My conclusion is that this PlM is not good. Is it a Spanish PlM? But may I have your opinion please.

[Pas de croix]

Anybody?

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi I look at it and did a quick look at the wagners and they look close but there are differences in them . One thing I am not sure of is the L doesnt come all the way up but is short and I haven't seen one with a pie wedge to it . I also looked at the godet but it isnt like it either because it is missing a few thing like the gap on the crown and the crown doesnt look the same . This is just my opinion and I am not a expert on these maybe others can weight i on it ?Does it have a weep hole in the bottom ?

[streptile]

It's certainly not a Wagner/FR or a Godet. Beyond that, I can't say either.

[Pas de croix]

It has some similarities to a Godet, but legs are different among other points.
I have to check about the weep hole.

[Montgomery Burns]

It has some similarities to a Godet, but legs are different among other points.
I have to check about the weep hole.

I think you have a very good aye fore antiques ....al do I am no expert on these PLM's

regards kay




.

[cobra-2001]

plm

The cross has the wagner style legs and the crown also looks like a wagner but i dont think it is either wagner or godet . Very nice filler i say.

[Montgomery Burns]

maybe a wild guess here and fare off,,, but ,,,, nice to take in account to

maybe one off the Deutscher offiziers verein PLM sold in 1902 ?

and 1915 to ?

( they're had there own style off ek's that cant be linked frame wise to any other jeweller so ,,,????? )maybe a wild guess

.

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi that could be to .I was looking on another site and there is a verison of it 1870 I think that looks a lot like it but not a very well detailed picture of it .

[Zepenthusiast]

It's an interesting cross for sure, not one I have come across prior, for what that's worth (limited value! ). By appearance, it is of one piece construction, possibly pressed (note the sloping edges, small amount of clean-up around the eagles' feet) and from the color of the photos, suggests bronze (as opposed to gold and hollow, which it presumably would have had to be prior to 1916). There are a couple of subtle things about the lettering, in particular, which don't match the majority of more common copies/fakes, and the vaulting of the enamel on the reverse is not as commonly encountered, either.

How much does it weigh?

[Pas de croix]

By appearance, it is of one piece construction, possibly pressed (note the sloping edges, small amount of clean-up around the eagles' feet) and from the color of the photos, suggests bronze ......................

How much does it weigh?

I agree with you that it seems to be one piece construction most likely possibly pressed. The weight is only 19 gram (about 295 grain). There is no weep hole in the bottom arm.

/Olof

[Pas de croix]

Weight in ounces = 0,670 Ounces
without the loop.

[Zepenthusiast]

The weight would also suggest a copper or bronze allow, as apparently a solid cross.

[Zepenthusiast]

Aspects of the crown and eagle details--especially the very thin legs (possibly cut from the tail-feathers combination) recall the nicer/earlier S&L work. Still, some differences there, too...

[Zepenthusiast]

Wish it were possible to give you some further insight into this cross. The detail and quality would suggest it is a fine copy of an 1870-ish Wagner-style hollow gold. I have not read that such were produced in solid bronze for any purpose (funerary pillow, etc.) and it seems to defy logic as a "typical fake" such as one runs into frequently, embodying as it does the finer worksmanship and some qualitative details of the earlier time. It would not be easy to make a die or sculpt the original from which to make this cross, and not make more than a few of them. It couldn't be cast directly from a hollow gold, either--the edges are against that, unless someone made a rougher casting and cleaned it up for re-molding...

You have a bit of an enigma, there, Pas de croix!