I am doomed

[Stijn David]

one more question

Hello,


Thank you for the comments + yes i am afraid that i am addicted once again.

Anyway another thing that comes to my mind is that when you compare the swords on the HOHX and the other swords award is that the swords on the HOHX are much more darker.

Could this be due to the fact that HOHX swords are made out of gilted silver+ the swords on the Princely House of Hohenzollern are made out of gold?

Thanks in advance,

[Dave Danner]

Hello,

* the Princely House of Hohenzollern : ???????? (no award numbers known at this point?)

934 awards of the Kreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern between 1914 and 1920.

[Blitz]

Great find, mate! Now you only have to find one Orden für Badens Ehre and you're there.

[Rick Research]

Assuming this officer WAS a Hohenzollern native, rather than a Badener (I suppose he could have been neither, and serving with the Division)...

checking Fusileer Regiment 40 for "BZ3bX" awards in the Baden rolls, and then the Prussian HHOX roll, I find ONE match. Of course, I have no clue what he got from Hohenzollern, absent a roll for them:

Walter-Henri Garbsch

Leutnant 2.6.11 S6 (vorpatentiert in 1912)
Oberleutnant 18.8.16 Uu
and retired in that rank

BZ3bX 19.8.15 in FR40
HHOX gazetted 15.6.17

Now it gets tricky: there was a younger one in another infantry regiment who was also a (char.) Oberleutnant aD. ONE of them shows as a Major (E) in the 1939 Position List, but there are TWO who were 1942 Obersten in the "T" seniority section--one of those apparently a regular who was NOT Reichsheer.

So I'm not SURE, but Garbsch is a good first suspect.

[John F.]

The thrill of the hunt

--Would it be unethical to acquire a loose Zahringen Lion and complete the bar?

Bill:

That is my preferred way of collecting medal bars, so I would say no. By locating the missing medal (as long as you don’t take it from another bar) you’re in fact restoring and preserving the bar. It is also a great way to find homes for your loose singles.

Stijn:

Great looking bar by the way!

John<O

[Stijn David]

Im addicted

Hello,


Oh my god => i simply did not know there where so few of these " Kreuz 3 e Klasse mit Schwertern" awarded , only 934 awards?????

Are there any known makers of this delicate beauty?

Dave could you advise me from where you did get that number? mayby that source can trace it further ???

Rick this is just lovely how you dig out names => is there anyone from our German members who can try a search for ID??

I will most certainly search a " Zähringer Löwe " but that will require some time

In regards to the missing award => are there things that i need to look for in regards to period when it was produced? (mayby a dumb question but i don't want to add a older piece to the bar as all awards have to be the same period i guess?)

Cordial greetings,

[Dave Danner]

The late Neal O'Connor examined the awards rolls in Sigmaringen in 2000. I am surprised no one has published the rolls, given how many leading BDOS figures such as Rainer Keilbach and Uwe Bretzendorfer live so close to Sigmaringen.

BTW, according to O'Connor, the aviator Carl-August von Schoenebeck had the very awards on your bar, but he also had the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross.

[Stijn David]

very nice bar

Hello,


Thank you very much for your information Dave => could you advise me on more info on the aviator you are talking about? anyway all traces are very welcome.

So far we have 2 names :

* Walter Heinrich Garbsch
* Carl-August von Schönebeck

Mayby a few other names will pop up

Cordial greetings,

[Dave Danner]

I just noted Herr von Schönebeck as an example of someone who had all these awards - he was in fact the only aviator to have both the Royal and Princely House Orders of Hohenzollern. However, he had plenty of other awards, so the bar wouldn't be his.

He rose to the rank of Generalmajor and died in 1989.

[Stijn David]

I am doomed

Hello,


Thank you very much for your kind answer => i guess that we will have to wait untill we have the Hohenzollern roll's to give a sure anwer

Anyway it isn't less interesting for me, is there anyone who can give me a answer about the colourdifference in swords on these pieces? is it possible that one has pure gold swords while the other one has Silver gilted swords?


Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

little more info

Hello,


The medal bar arrived today and i must say => these enameld things are just gorgeous

I checked the awards for maker marks and i have found the following on the HOHX : S & W (moon) + (Imperial crown) 937

Is there anyone who can give more details about this makers mark?

I also noted that the ring is still in place where where the baden "Zähringer Löwe" was !!!, so it probably did break off at some point => this however means that once i will be able to replace it with another Zähringer Löwe.


Cordial greetings,

[Theodor]

Von Schonebeck, by chance, could he be the same gen. von Schonebek, who was German AF atachee in Bulgaria in WW2?

[Stijn David]

The recipient =&gt; more units could be possible

Hello,


I have done some reseacrhing and have found out that the soldiers from the following units could be eligable for the " Fürstliche Hausorden von hohenzollern " :

* Fuselier Regiment " Fürst Carl Anton von Hohenzollern " Nr. 40

* Königliche bayerischen 22. Infanterie Regiment " Fürst Wilhelm von Hohenzollern "

* 2. e Garde Regiment zu Fuss

* 1. e Garde Regiment zu Fuss

* Hohenzollernschen Fussartillerie-Regiment Nr. 13

So the former recipient could ahve been a officer (Leutnant, Oberleutnant or Hauptmann ).

Is there anyone who can corsscheck the Zahringer Lion against the HOHX again for matches with the above named units?

Cordial greetings and thanks

ps: Please Ricky make some time for a old friend

[Rick Research]

I think you can safely exclude the two Prussian Guards regiments from this combination. Rulers were FAR less lavish with their awards on à la Suite regiments than ones they were the sole Honorary Colonel or namesake of.

I went through Foot Artillery 13 and get no match.

My guru just got off the phone-- he copied the Principlaity of Hohenzollern WW1 rolls when he was in Sigmaringen with Neal O'Connor some years back (if I am very very good , maybe he will re-xerox them for me ) and he can CONFIRM that

Walter-Heinz* Garbsch recieved the Principality of Hohenzollern's House Order 3rd Class with Swords on 27 February 1915 (#102 on the Roll) while in FR 40.

* Baden has him as "Walter-Henri."

I have found NO ONE else with ONLY the Prussian and Hohenzollern HO3Xs and the BZ3bX.

[Stijn David]

I am doomed

Hello,


Thank you once again my dear friend => that could be such superior news iff have a positiveID

So iff we have a name it could be : Walter-Henri Garbsch

he did win the following awards in Chronoligical appearance :

* 27-02-1915 : Principality of Hohenzollern's House Order 3rd Class with Swords

* 19-08-1915 : Baden " Zähringer Löwe " Knights cross 2 nd. class with swords

* 15-06-1917 : Prussia HOHX

Are you award where i could trace his personal file ? => iff such thing does still exist offcoarse

Please thank your Guru already from me for this info

Now i must try and find more about this person !!!!!!!!!!

Cordial greetings and thanks