1870 EK2 variant?

[Brian S]

I'll send you the best pics i got very soon, Brian. It's no wonder you can't see the makers mark. It toke me over an year to find it myself.. It's in a place where you tend not to look for it. Btw, did you share your opinion when i asked about the dating, Brian? If you did or do have one, sharing it would be great.

There's a way for "us" to get to that information!

We need to slowly but surely explore the 'right' medal bars. Loose EK's won't get us there.

This accuracy means a lot to me, so I'm working on this and I'll let you know.

[Blitz]

Sent the email a minute ago..

[Tim Tezer]

I don't know where to look...

The trick is to look at the few details that are available on an EK that can vary from one cross to another. Here are the points I usually look at, in approximate order of importance:

- Date numerals
- Frame beading
- Color and texture of iron core (not always easy in photos)
- "W" cypher (obviously not applicable on 1813's)
- Crown
- Color of patina on silver

It's important to try and see as many as possible first-hand (not just in photos), and to know who is selling them or who owns them, how experienced those people are, and whether they have any provenance. Also, study photos in books, especially Freidhelm Heyde's "Das Eisernes Kreuz 1813-1870-1914" which I've recommended on this forum before. When I first got that book several years ago I kept staring at the photos, and somewhere in the back of my mind I was aware that there were differences between the different time periods, but I had a really hard time figuring out how to identify what they were. Then every time I saw an EK from a reliable source, (or from a source that I knew was selling fakes) I would study it and then study the photos in the book. Gradually the differences became more apparent.

Of course, there are still a lot of examples out there that leave me scratching my head. There are so many different makers, both real and bogus, that at a certain point you just have to rely on instinct. You also have to be willing to admit it when the only real answer you can come up with is "I don't know."

Tim

[Blitz]

I've been looking for a copy of "Das Eiserne Kreuz", but everywhere i look it's all "out of print". I would pay high dollar for that book...When compared with my collection, my list of referens books is way too short. Yes, Tim, that is indeed the best answer available at the moment. But, there is always hope. There are so many smart people in this forum, that we will have to figure it out, eventuelly.

[Biro]

Thanks Tim

That book is on my list too...

Seems you need to be a combination of Historian, Metallurgist, Jeweller and Scientist to successfully operate in Imperial!

God knows I'm bad enough at i'ding two identical CORES let alone also knowing what they are made of, how they are supposed to be mounted, and so on.

Truly, I have much to learn!

[Bill M]

--Yes, the Heyde book is a #1 priority as the photos are from a collection compiled during and, I guess, after the First World War. The photos are very good when compared to the Geisseler book, and there are plenty of 1870 EK2's to compare. I find that this is usually the primary book referenced to by the EKer 'establishment', and it was sometimes regarded almost as a 'be all and end all' of the Imperial Iron cross. {This in itself is somewhat dangerous as though - it's an impressive collection (understatement!), it is not complete.}

--I don't mean to knock the Geisseler book as it is a great help as well - also well worth having!
--We're all learning things! I have to say that I really appreciate being among guys who find this sh!t as interesting and important as I do. Cheers!

[Brian S]

--Yes, the Heyde book is a #1 priority as the photos are from a collection compiled during and, I guess, after the First World War.

I would like to see this also. Time to find one and share.

[Bill M]

--I will try my hand at photographing some of the photos in the book (I don't have a scanner). It may not be soon, but I will try...

[JensF.]

The detail of this cross is great but I really hate the very very strange patina on the frame!!!

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Imperials,

For what it is worth, I think the crown actually IS the same on Eric Stahlhut´s cross and Detlev Niemann´s fake cross picture:

[Frank Heukemes]

Niemann´s:

[Gerd W.]

Hi!

Interesting thread............

I have a very similar cross like Eric´s in my collection.

It´s KO marked, so it´s not a direct 1870 purchased piece. Got it with the 25 year oaks! All features are the same like Eric´s EK, ok another maker mark.
Please have a look at my pics.
IMO a late variant of the 1870 EK, not a fake.

Regards

Gerd

[Biro]

Thank You Frank!!! ...

[Gerd W.]

some details

[Gerd W.]

and the crown