Lauer/lemcke 1870 ek 1

[streptile]

below the belly trevor ?

Eh... just around the belly, let's say .

[sam steele]

Hello Gents,

I'm sorry if I appear to be doing some "advertising" for Barry. I'm not. If anything, I'm seeking opinions from people such as Marshall, Trevor and Don as to whether $3600 is a good ballpark figure for a non-awarded Cross.
I'm not deluding myself in believing that it is an official issue award. I believe it to be a slightly later piece made by a supplier of the official issue award. If there's only 1304 awarded, and three known manufacturers, that in itself to me denotes quality, and rarity.

Yes.....Patience is a virtue. However, time marches on, and as Don says, quality items appreciate in value. You have to weigh the pros and cons of waiting for a bargain to fall out of the sky, or purchase now, knowing that it is an investment for the future.

As a final thought to this - I take pleasure and enjoyment in researching and studying pieces of history. If owning such an item brings me joy, then I'm quite happy with this hobby

Cheers,

Bill

[Don D.]

A good perspective to have imo.

[Andy K.]

Wagner EK I 1870 offered by Straube-Orden

Hello Gents,

Please cold anybody tell me the asking price of the Wagner EK I 1870 actually for sale by Straube in Germany?

Many thanks in advance.

Andy

[streptile]

Yes.....Patience is a virtue. However, time marches on, and as Don says, quality items appreciate in value.

I firmly believe that the 1870 EK1 will become the "Imperial RK" (to collectors).

• There are only a few makers, and a few known and accepted variants.
• The quality is extremely high -- the highest of the entire EK series (below the Grand Cross).
• The materials are silver and iron.
• The award numbers were low, and they are becoming scarce. Indeed there are far fewer in existence than the RK.
• The prices are climbing astronomically within the past 5 years -- akin to what we witnessed with the RK in the late 1990s.
• They generate intense interest and discussion, much like the RK.

In all, I would say that right now is the time to buy an 1870 EK1. They will never be any cheaper. In fact, I think that Straube's price will seem reasonable in one or two years, when prices will approach the RK.

[Montgomery Burns]

buy buy buuuuuyyyyyyyyy..............















.

[ekhunter]

was it the sold ek 1870 with hooks ?

with crown pictures off an AWS ?????

to me it looks like a 1939 LDO frame ?

or is it just the picture ?

The close up picture of the (crown) one that SOLD is another cross from the picture that shows the entire cross. It does look like an AWS in the close up! Something definately got mixed/crossed up there.

[Montgomery Burns]

by the way ....https://www.weitze.net/index_e.html

weitze is selling a wagner 4800 Euro ,,,and its an interesting and original variation .

a little cheaper as Straube (3000 Euro cheaper or so ? )

also a nice ek 1 1870 godet with fangs ,,3500 Euro


and the rest off the ek's are reasonably priced ,,,,,so it is possible







regards

[Montgomery Burns]

and if you fisit www.mbertram.de

you will find a ek 1 1870 fore 1469 Euro ...

hope that aim helping some collectors this way ...

making my point

regards kay

[Montgomery Burns]

karsten zeige ,,http://www.zeige.com/index2.html

auction leftover off mei

a re/fitted ek1 1870 marked godet 2000Euro

if you mail that man maybe you can make a deal

regards

[streptile]

Hold on with the advice, and let's make sure it's good advice.

weitze is selling a wagner 4800 Euro ,,,and its an interesting and original variation .

Please tell me why you think the I. Wagner at Weitze with the sideways pin is a "variation" rather than a mistake or a repair. I have never seen another one with that pin, sideways or otherwise.

and if you fisit www.mbertram.de, you will find a ek 1 1870 fore 1469 Euro ...

Please tell me why you think Bertram's EK1 is original. I do not know that it is.

hope that aim helping some collectors this way ...making my point

I think the point you are making best is the opposite: if you want good, original, problem-free collectibles, you have to pay good money for them.

[Montgomery Burns]

Hold on with the advice, and let's make sure it's good advice.



Please tell me why you think the I. Wagner at Weitze with the sideways pin is a "variation" rather than a mistake or a repair. I have never seen another one with that pin, sideways or otherwise.

I do not see no trace off the pin system being taken off..who knows what is possible ?



Please tell me why you think Bertram's EK1 is original. I do not think it is.
to me it looks like a A core ,(wide frame )? repair hook ,,so what ?



I think the point you are making best is the opposite: if you want good, original, problem-free collectibles, you have to pay good money for them.
yeaa ,,but not 7500 Euro please

its about all posability's the high and the low ....
mint you wont find......

and even the Straube ek 1 1870 wasn't good as you said yourself ...

only the ek's from Emedal ?

well bring it on ,,discuss all examples listed and found

regards

[Montgomery Burns]

Oh ,,and Trevor ,,my opinion is irrelevant as all items listed as originals .

as E medals is doing to .

those dealers selling them as originals ,,its they're responsibility
just as E medals .

they all have they're problems ,,,,,,,yes

but looking at you're prediction off the future ,,,we cant loose


you think they're not original ,so maybe aim mistaken,,as far as it is possible to see ...

can we be sure at all ,,,???? NO ....

everyone who's interested has to do his own homework ....
and has to trust the dealers COA .

(or not)






.

[Don D.]

Perhaps we should get this thread back on track about 1870s EK1s. Prices have been discussed many times in the Community and Kneipe Forums.

[streptile]

Hi Kay,

You've made a lot of points and asked a lot of questions, so I will try as best I can to answer them all in this post.

You think Weitze's I. Wagner may be a legitimate "variant" because you see no evidence of the pin being removed, and "who knows what is possible." I guess I would only say that, with high-end items, it's nice to see at least one other example of the type you intend to buy. That pin is just so different from any other known type that I can't see an advanced collector being happy with it, which (I guess) is why it's been there for years despite a reasonable price. Plus the pin is horizontal. I agree, though, that otherwise the cross and the mark look ok, so I think a repair is a possibility.

About Beltram's cross. It has sat, unsold, for over 18 months at €1500, where an original Wagner would fetch easily three times that. Do you really think it's ok? I might be inclined to think of that cross as a WWI replacement example, except that such effort has been made to duplicate the Wagner award-style pin. No one would have done that in 1914, given the tremendous problems with that pin to begin with (breakage). I am fairly certain that piece was made (recently) with a good 1914 EK1 and a good Type A core, probably from an EK2.

The archetypal award-type Wagner may be seen on pp. 114-115, The Iron Time, 2nd Ed. (only), with no repairs or damage. This is the ideal of the 1870 EK1, as far as most collectors are concerned. Both Weitze's and Beltram's pieces differ far too much from this ideal to make me comfortable.

and even the Straube ek 1 1870 wasn't good as you said yourself ... only the ek's from Emedal ?

I think I said, "the pin looks filed and the catch is either replaced or at least non-standard," which is a long way from "not good." Look, I'm no eMedals groupie, but the tone of your question suggests that it's somehow incorrect to state that, of all the EK1s under discussion, only the J/AWS Wideframe from eMedals is "textbook." But that happens to be the truth, so what can I do? Yes, it is the only truly textbook example we've discussed in this thread.

they all have they're problems ,,,,,,,yes. but looking at you're prediction off the future ,,,we cant loose

I don't agree with this at all. It's not a fair interpretation of what I've written, or predicted.

Just so we can have some reference for further discussion, I will show the photos I saved of Detlev's recent 'LL' marked Type B EK1 below.