1870 EK1 makers..

[Biro]

Re-reading an old thread on this forum, I have spotted reference to four known makers of the 1870 EK1, but am aware of only three...

Wagner, Godet, and later, Lauer

Is there a fourth ...or more?....

Thanks

[Tim Tezer]

I'm sure I'm going over old ground here, but there were only TWO official makers at the time of the war - Wagner and Godet. Lauer made private purchase pieces - I have never heard of any issued pieces by Lauer. It would stand to reason that other firms made private purchase pieces, and for that matter the one worn by Wilhelm I himself was unmarked and would have to be regarded as a private purchase example.

From my own experience, I have seen a great number of examples that were suppsed to be private purchase pieces, or later pieces by Wagner or Godet. The small number of them that I have believed to be period examples were almost invariably unmarked. In fact, Lauer is about the only company that I am certain of that marked their pieces. I have one example on hand now that is almost certainly made by Lauer, but is also unmarked.

Tim

[Bill M]

"...and for that matter the one worn by Wilhelm I himself was unmarked and would have to be regarded as a private purchase example."
--Where did you find that out, Tim?
--Are we talking about the one pictured in 'The Iron Time'?

[Biro]

Hi Tim

Sorry - I figured there would be some raised eyebrows at the prospect of treading 'old ground' but I would have been quite happy with Wagner & Godet as the only 'true' makers, until I read this by Greg S in an 1870 EK1 thread......1870 time

Greg S .....Do we know all the makers of the 1870? The Iron Time only lists four makers with different types of stamps"...

Admittedly it was posted in April 2002, but either we have different copies of the Iron Time, or perhaps Greg was refering to EK2's. A bit ambiguous....

Handy to know Lauer was Private Purchase only, though.

Thanks....

[Bobby lee]

Are any of you guys aware of any re-pops out there with the I.Wagner &S 14 loth stamp on the back?

[Eric Stahlhut]

Hi Tim

Sorry - I figured there would be some raised eyebrows at the prospect of treading 'old ground' but I would have been quite happy with Wagner & Godet as the only 'true' makers, until I read this by Greg S in an 1870 EK1 thread......1870 time



Admittedly it was posted in April 2002, but either we have different copies of the Iron Time, or perhaps Greg was refering to EK2's. A bit ambiguous....

Handy to know Lauer was Private Purchase only, though.

Thanks....

Biro,

Greg was entirely correct in listing four makers. The fourth maker is Friedrich Sedlatzek.


best,

e~

P.S. Bobby Lee- Wagner repops are absolutely out there!
Tim, Godet and Wagner both made private purchase pieces as well.

[Eric Stahlhut]

BTW, apropos,

Found this for sale today for the princely sum of.....$2800!!!! This as well as the Wilhemskreuz 1ster raised my hackles. Fat Guy must be going blind....

[Bill M]

--Ooooh, don't like that one. Photo of the front?

[Bill M]

Bobby Lee, I haaven't checked recently but the thread on Latvian fake 1870's is pinned up on top of the forum. Wasn't there a fake Wagner in there? hmmmm, now I'm not so sure...
--Anyway, I actually don't recall ever seeing an "I" Wagner fake and the fake "J"s are pretty obvious.

[Eric Stahlhut]

Merde, Mierda, Schei............

--Ooooh, don't like that one. Photo of the front?

By now you have seen the front and I'm sure you can agree that it certainly isn't any better than the reverse. Any time a guy starts effusively babbling about "Bubbling" of 1870-or earlier laquered cores(on multiple listings) it makes me very nervous.

Laquer doesn't generally bubble. It flakes away and is replaced... oh, nevermind.

[Bill M]

--Yep, bubbling I usually look for an 1813's, flaking on 1870 1st's.

--There are lot's of other nice things there this month, though. Of course it's all just too damned expensive...

[Tony & Kaiser]

And this is why I will never find an 1870 EK1 in my collection. Chances are I could never afford it, and if I could, it would have to come from someone here on the forum who's opinion and knowledge I have come to respect. Perhaps some day I will find an nice 1870 EK2 with oakleaves, but until then I'll stick to the 1914s.Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com

[Tim Tezer]

"...and for that matter the one worn by Wilhelm I himself was unmarked and would have to be regarded as a private purchase example."
--Where did you find that out, Tim?
--Are we talking about the one pictured in 'The Iron Time'?

Yes, and the same cross - from the Burg Hohenzollern - is also pictured in V.E. Bowen's "The Prussian and German Iron Cross".

Tim

[Tim Tezer]

Are any of you guys aware of any re-pops out there with the I.Wagner &S 14 loth stamp on the back?

Yes. The fakes that regularly appear withe the "J" instead of the "I" have been labeled as fakes by Detlev Niemann, and even the more forgiving collectors out there consider them "later" copies. The core details of those pieces are completely different than the originals, so as far as I'm concerned, they are not for my collection.

There have also been some "I" marked pieces turning up, but they are identical to the "J" marked pieces, so the altered maker's mark doesn't wash.

Tim

[Tim Tezer]

Biro,

Greg was entirely correct in listing four makers. The fourth maker is Friedrich Sedlatzek.

I am sure that Godet and Wagner made private purchase pieces, but my point was that they were the ONLY makers of issued pieces.

But what about Sedlatzek? I just looked through "The Iron Time" again, and I didn't see any reference to them. What's more, I thought that Sedlatzek was only active manufacturing decorations after WWI?

Tim