S&L Showroom circa 1940/1?

[Les]

Jaeger7....Vielen Dankbar für deinen Graphik posten!

I've been working on a close up image of the PlM and tried to make the image sharper, altered the light-dark contrast and other settings. I'll let others with better image software post their results.

The tail feathers on the eagles are wider than post-war S&L made copies, and also the necks on the eagles appear to be much thicker than S&L type eagles. Based on what the photos suggest, the PlM in the photo does not look like the pieces made by S&L after the war.

Jim, you asked about a possible date for the photo?

The 1939 S&L catalog doesn't have the WWII era and many other badges/medals in it, so that would indicate a date later than the fall of 1939. The photo has what look like a few WWII era medals (RK, and perhaps an infantry assault badge) suggesting sometime after the fall of Poland and France. There is nothing that looks like the German Cross in gold/silver in there. 1940 or 1941 perhaps?

[Brian S]

It could very likely be the back room of S&L postwar WWII. Just as in the book The Odessa File, I experienced the back rooms of several antique stores that had every imaginable WWII nazi issue medal that was not displayed in the front room. We already know S&L stamped and sold anything from WWII to dealers in the US. Why not a back room display for dealers, collectors, buyers to view their selection? That PlM looks very much like the typical S&L PlM we see with the very distinctive, non-Wagner, non-FR, style of ribbon.

Are the S&L letters on a sign? Could they be from the orginal S&L showroom and be in the hands of a collector who displayed his collection like so? There is just so much here that S&L typically did not make themselves. I too noticed that China Denkmunze.

[Zepenthusiast]

Jaeger7-de can speak for himself, obviously, but here are a couple of observations to play with:

Qualitatively, the tone of the image suggests good "pre-color" black and white from a quality camera--not somebody's Brownie snap-shot, if you will. There is a qualitative aspect to the image one might submit is typical of the suggested era. Yes, you can photo-shop anything, but it is "right" in the necessary way and worthy of being recognized for that. This is not some grainy image.

Second, there would appear to be very little clearly Nazi (or even potentially WWII) representation among the awards. If a "back room," it would be one dedicated to mostly Imperial and/or Weimar decorations/awards, while curiously admixing just a little bit of the "New Order."

Third, how many people with a collection like that would have it on open shelves/walls, no glass? And a potted plant in the corner? Circumstantial and no doubt "re-creatable" easily, but again nothing "out-of-place" to be what it is purported to be.

I would echo (shadow would be a more appropriate description for my opinion) Les in saying that can't be a typical S&L PlM. It is too thick in all dimensions, for one thing, and the suspension would appear to be of more typical baroque size and position than found on an S&L of the usual '57+ variety, such as one can discern it below the ribbon.

[Les]

There's a Condor Legion Badge in the same case with the PlM. Look at the Observer flight badge in the upper left hand corner, and then look slightly to the right and downwards (roughly 4th hour position on the clock).

Can we have any remarks on the Condor Legion badge kept to another, more relevant part of the forum?

Jim, I noticed the lack of glass also. Glass plays havoc with photos, but keeping everything out in the open results in dust collecting on exposed surfaces, and keeping everything clean could be a problem unless the display was only intended for a short term.

[Leroy]

Magnificent photo and thank you very much for sharing this!

What I at first glance thought was a WWI display (the middle cabinet) is, rather, a display of a lot of wartime material, including a Grand Cross and an RK with either Oakleaves or Oakleaves and Swords. Spanish Crosses are also there (upper left) and one of those appears to have a raised center area (perhaps the SK with Brilliants?).

If this is the S&L display area, and not some collector's simulation (which I doubt), I find it hard to believe that S&L would display items it did not actually make. In turn, this makes me wonder if S&L did not, in fact, manufacture many items (including the Condor Tank Badge) not normally associated with it. It would be nice to have a post 1940 catalog!

Agains, thanks for sharing this.

[Brian S]

Leroy, it was common practice to display all and sell all even if you didn't manufacture it yourself.

Without crystal clear photos all that can be said of this is here's a lot of awards, most awards no doubt as of a certain date, post Spanish Civil War, of most awards Imperial and Third Reich. No conclusions can be made as to S&L manufacture or lack of manufacture. It's just a photo. Conjecture is all that can continue. I do not see how any facts can be drawn. Without a clear view of the Flower War Awards, it's hard to find a date.

The metal stool, office furniture as it is, might be our biggest clue.

[Leroy]

Brian,
You may well be absolutely correct and what I thought this might suggest was, indeed, conjecture on my part. I do, however, find it strange that a medal manufacturer would display, on its "home turf", material made by others, and I was unaware that this was a standard practice by any other manufacturer. I seem to recall a photo of a display window at Juncker and all it contained was Juncker products. In any case, a very interesting photo and I would love to see more (although I can fully understand the reluctance of the poster to share the rest).
Regards,
Leroy

[VtwinVince]

I find the interior of this room to look far too 'modern' to date to 1940's Germany. I think the display cases and lighting look much more like something from a later date. Just my feeling.

[Dietrich Maerz]

It would be nice to have a post 1940 catalog!

I have one and you should know it - I show the picture of the RK in my book. The date must be between March 1, 1941 (LDO number is announced in the catalog) and 29.Sept. 1941 when the Swords were introduced (which are not in the catalog - the oaks are ... RM 13.80 cased)

Attached the page for the WW1 medals . Of course they also had the EK1 and II and the WBs. No PLM.

Dietrich

PS: Danke an Jaeger fuer das tolle Photo!

[Leroy]

Sorry, Dietrich. I should have said post-1941!

[streptile]

I find the interior of this room to look far too 'modern' to date to 1940's Germany. I think the display cases and lighting look much more like something from a later date. Just my feeling.

Hi Vince,

With all the swastikas around, and the name of "Steinhauer & Lück" painted on the walls, I'm not sure when (or what) else this could be. It looks '40s enough to me, personally.

[Zepenthusiast]

The style and lighting are not in the least anachronistic for late 1930s or early 1940s--this is pretty classic Bauhaus. Germany was early to adopt "modern" trends in architecture and interior decor. Here are some similar stools from an online sale of Bauhaus furnishings:


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The seller (I'm sorry I lost the link to the sale page in my browsing) had them listed as circa 1929, attributed to the designer Breuer.

[Scott C.]

One only need view the thread on Wolfe-Harden to know not all advanced collections are kept behind glass.

[Brian S]

We have massive conjecture here... Focus on what Dietrich just showed us. No PlM in the sales book. If they had made one, it would be in the book.

German bauhaus is well known...but...

...because it "resembles" a period piece, furniture... Place this exact piece of furniture to a manufacturer and date, because it has four legs, a seat, is placed on the floor and has chrome tubing, doesn't make it bauhaus... Not any more than because it's blue, says Pour le Merite and is in the resemblence and shape of PlM then it's period.

This looks like a showroom, but a great collection, would look like a showroom. And, if I had a collection like that in cabinets like that under glass doors, I'd remove the doors for photos. But if the walls say S&L, I'm guessing it's the S&L show room. That's not a great point to argue against.

[Zepenthusiast]

I was just looking at the W&H collection thread and seeing a whole lot of glass...Even the majority of the manequins would appear to have been photographed through glass, as with the hats on the shelves, etc.

That's a whole lot of badges and medals to dust in this showroom, unless one were expecting them to be moving now and then or had people cleaning--which S&L would. While there could be glass panels or doors removed for the picture, the finish looks "clean"--like a Bauhaus showroom would. The point about the stool is that it is consistent with period furniture. Even if you had an exact manufacturer identified, I could find the same stool at my neighbor's house and it wouldn't prove anything. The point is, everything in this photo is entirely consistent with what jaeger7-de claims it to be. Taken as a whole, it should raise some eyebrows.

What about just asking S&L if it's their old showroom, if that would be acceptable to jaeger7-de?