Mapping out areas of Imperial Germany

[Dave Danner]

...Dave, your site helped out a lot although I am still bewildered by the complexity of Imperial. Let me see if I have this right: The EK is a Prussian award. The other states/kingdoms/duchies/independent cities have a version or equivilent of the EK? If so are the others based on the EK? Do they look like the EK at all or are they just equal in the sense of being a brevery award? How many other award types span across all the areas of Imperial Germany? Is it possible for you or anyone to post some pics of the different EK type awards? There I go again,...Sal the human question mark!
...
Best, Sal

This is copied and pasted, with corrections, from an earlier thread on this topic:

The question regarding EK equivalents is what criteria to use: (1) a military decoration in two classes, one on ribbon and one pinback; (2) a military decoration awarded to officers and enlisted men without regard to rank; or (3) the basic military decoration of the particular German state (or some combination of these criteria)?

There were 24 entities of the German Empire that awarded decorations. Of these, only four had an award that was like Prussia's Iron Cross by all three criteria. These were:

• Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin - Military Merit Cross, 1st and 2nd Class
• Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Strelitz - Cross 1st Class for Distinction in War, "Brave and Loyal" and Cross for Distinction in War, "Brave and Loyal"
• Grand Duchy of Oldenburg - Friedrich August Cross, 1st and 2nd Class
• Duchy of Brunswick - War Merit Cross, 1st and 2nd Class (but note that the 1st Class was only authorized in March 1918)

The Principality of Lippe-Detmold comes close, but its pinback cross, the War Cross for Heroic Deeds, was actually a separate award and not a higher class of its War Merit Cross on ribbon. The Principality of Schaumburg-Lippe did have a 1st class pinback version of its Cross for Loyal Service, but the pinback was for members of ruling houses only.

If we only only apply the second two criteria and add military decorations that were awarded without regard to rank and were the state's basic award, we may add Anhalt's Friedrich Cross, Hesse's General Honor Decoration "For Bravery" and the Hanseatic Crosses of Bremen, Hamburg and Lübeck.

For all other states, the basic military decoration one would receive depended on one's rank. Hesse's pinback Warrior's Honor Decoration (Kriegerehrenzeichen) was awarded without regard to rank but was not the state's basic award. A much rarer award (344 awarded) given without regard to rank, and also not that state's basic award, was the Oval Silver Duke Carl Eduard Medal with Crown and Sword Clasp, also known as the Duke Carl Eduard Medal Second Class with Swords and Date, from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

During World War One, several states added pinback awards that mirrored the Iron Cross 1st Class in being awarded without regard to rank, but these were relatively rare awards and were not the basic awards of those states. These were: the Wilhelm Ernst War Cross of Saxe-Weimar (362 awarded); the Duke Ernst Medal, 1st Class with Swords, of Saxe-Altenburg (86 awarded); the Carl Eduard War Cross of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (97 awarded); and the War Merit Cross "1914" of Reuss (unknown number awarded, but very few).

Here is that thread, BTW, which has some good pictures from various member's collections: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...4&page=2&pp=15

[Brian S]

Well Sal, I must admit to being in your club. I am getting more and more interested in Imperial stuff but it seems so complicated. As suggested above, I have started with EK's and related items and am slowly moving to other things, so far based on whether they would look good in my collection (Silesian eagles for ex). Wouldn't it be great if the specialist collectors on this forum got together and put their photos of WW1 awards and their experience in a book......Maybe experienced authors like Gordon Williamson would be able to assist those concerned? I would love to own a good and complete reference book, wouldn't you? As far as I know there is nothing like that currently on the market (if there is please correct me).

Let's get Dave's web site complete and then you've got your book Just submit requests to Dave.

[Dave Danner]

Another approach to the EK equivalents which is great for a display is to look for "classic trios" - the EK2, the state award, and the Honor Cross for Combatants. This gives you a nicer way to display them rather than loose on the ribbon. Here are some that I have:

Bavaria


Oldenburg


Schaumburg-Lippe


Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt and Schwarzburg-Sondershausen


Württemberg

[Sal Williams]

Thanks so much Dave!
Very informative. It clears up many things, but as usual it brings me even more questions. I will make a list of my next round of questions for you guys to post . I am just about to pay off a bach of stuff from Rick Versailles which will include my first ever Imperial item! Just an EK2 for you guys, but a big treat for me! So I was under the impression that the EK was a prussian award only, but now I believe that it was stated that all the areas awarded the EK as well as their own local awards. It that true?
Thanks Again, Sal

[Rick Research]

The 1914 Prussian Iron Cross was authorized for bestowal by the rulers of the other German federal imperial states so that, yes indeed, Bavaria awarded Iron Crosses "in the name of the German Kaiser" etc etc.

Most of the non-Prussian states more often than not awarded their OWN basic whatever it happened to be first, and THEN an Iron Cross 2nd Class. That did not always hold true, especially for officers, who normally got an EK2 and THEN their own native war ORDER.

Certainly that's how then Oberleutnant der Reserve Friedrich Lautenschlager got his:


Iron Cross 2nd Class 17 September 1914 as his first award of the war, followed by (even though as a Bavarian it was mounted first as their "senior" award) the Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Class with Swords on 1 August 1915:

[Rick Research]

And don't forget that ALMOST every Imperial German WW1 decoration came with an award document. Many of the state awards used standardized preprinted forms which are about as exciting looking as dog licenses. Indeed, Iron Cross documents, issued sometimes down to independent platoon levels (unlike WW2's divisional up ONLY) are often pathetic mimeographed things.

But sometimes they are nice.

Her's Lautenschlager's EK1 Urkunde (reduced massively to fit here) from late 1918, for instance. You could spend your whole life in the endless variety of WW1 Iron Cross award documents.

[Rick Research]

And here's a "dog license" variety, issued in 1919 for an EK1 to Mecklenburg cavalry Leutnant dR Hans Behncke, who ended up, of all things, as a Marine Division Orderly Officer in Flanders. It is the size to be folded into his military papers:

[Rick Research]

Most "Imperial" medal bars are going to date from the 1930s. While the war was going on, there was little opportunity, even for officers, to wear full parade dress.

And most men who had bars mounted in the 1920s when Weimar was handing out no awards, had to REmount them in the Third Reich flurry of awards 1934-38, before another war led to a lull in medal bar wear again.

[Sal Williams]

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the insights and the pics! 2 questions: Prussian states? Does this mean that it is not just Prussia, but a conglomerate of states that makes up Prussia and that all of those awarded the EK as the official award? So if the Imperial medal bars were usually made in the 20s or 30s, were any awards worn regularly by soldiers during the great war? If so , in what fashion?
Also the blue Bavarian award in the first pic you posted is so BEAUTIFUL!!! How much do those run? Do you have one you want to sell? Would it go with my Bavarian pickelhaube that I posted pics of a while ago?
Thanks for all your help, Sal