Observer's Badge?

[Ron C.]

Sorry.....don't remember if I posted this one before. I never collected Imperial stuff, and I do not remember when, how, where and how much on this badge. I don't know anything about it......don't even know if it is "real"......looks more like TR period in a way to me. What can you tell me?

Thanks,
Ron

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Ron,

I don't recall seeing one exactly like this before. Really poor obverse crown detail, ?fantasy markings I've never seen before and imo post-45 hardware do not give this example much chance.

Regards
Mike

[Don D.]

On the plus side, the enamel work looks ok. Let's see the marks.

The reverse set up almost looks S&Lish.

[streptile]

imo post-45 hardware

I agree that this looks like a 1957-era setup.


Photo: WAF member vic007

[Ron C.]

On the plus side, the enamel work looks ok. Let's see the marks.

The reverse set up almost looks S&Lish.

[Ferg 1]

certainly 57er hardware, I have a 1957 retired pilot badge with same setup.Ferg1

[Don D.]

I can't find a match for the marks. I thought the * mark might be Austrian......

[Ron C.]

I am just guessing now, because I absolutely know nothing about the subject; my guess would be that it is not a repro..........whatever it is.........post WW1, pre-WW2 (which I suppose could have been said as Weimar ), WW2 or post WW2. The reason for that guess is it seems well made, the marks are deep and distinct.......and, I would think if someone was trying to make a repro they would pick a mark that was fairly easily identified......not obscure. I would think, if all that were so, that Don would have found out what maker the mark represented; however, all my guesswork could be totally wrong.

Now I am even more curious as to what it is..........and when it is from!

Thanks,
Ron

[Mike Yokum]

Interesting badge, with striking similarities in hardware to a 1957 award, but defintitely not a 1957 New Form award.

Keep in mind that Form awards were created to allow veterans to wear their hard earned combat awards in a de-Nazified version. As this badge never displayed a swastika, it would not have been reissued in the New Form tradtion.

Here is a list (roughly translated) of permitted and banned 1957 awards:

Federal Republic of Germany from 1957 under Title Act, orders and decorations from 26.07.1957

40 mm Band:
Grand Cross of Merit, and higher levels of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany
Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross in its steps
Knight's Cross of War Merit Cross with swords and without
Olympic Medal 1st class
Bavarian Order of Merit
Great Cross of Merit of the Lower
Medal of the German Red Cross 1st class (1922-1937)
Orden Pour le Merite for Arts and Sciences
Knights in its steps

25 mm Band:
Merit 1st Class Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany
Honor leaf brooch or clasp
German Cross in Gold
Iron Cross 1st Class
German Cross in Silver
War Merit Cross 1st class
Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany
Lifesaving medal with ribbon
Iron Cross 2nd class
Orders and medals for Meritorious Service in World War I in order of presentation
Close Combat, front air and naval combat badges with spanges and use numbers
Wound Badge
Medal of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany
Special badges for armor and low-flying aircraft destruction
Assault, combat or war, including the shields, badges
Cross of Honor of World War I.
War Merit Cross 2nd class
Medal Eastern Front 1941/42 "
Performance and Activity Badges
German peace awards in order of presentation
State approved awards in order of presentation
Foreign bravery awards
Other external awards
All awards of the German Reich 1933-45 be worn without the swastika.

The following decorations of the Nazi Party and its formations or on the occasion of the establishment the Greater German Reich was founded, are prohibited

German National Prize for Arts and Science
Order of the German Eagle
SS Service Award
Medal to commemorate the 13th March 1938
Medal to commemorate the 01 October 1938
Medal to commemorate the return of Memel
Cross of Honor of the German Mother
Spanish Cross
German Cross of Honor for surviving Spanish Civil War
Wound Badge for German volunteers in the Spanish War of Independence
Armored troops of the Condor Legion Badges
Medal for German people care
West Wall Medal
Sports, performance and winner Badge

The German version can be seen here... CLICK

[streptile]

Interesting badge, with striking similarities in hardware to a 1957 award, but defintitely not a 1957 New Form award.

Thanks for that, Mike. By "defintitely not a 1957 New Form award," you mean not an officially authorized award, but there are many indications that this piece was made around 1957. Just to clarify.

[Don D.]

He means there was no reason to create a "new form" as the old Imperial form had nothing to do with the nazis. Imperial awards were made right alongside 57er awards by producers for the veterans of WW1 that earned them.

[jaba-the-hunt]

I think it is post WW2 and not a wearer copy.

Regards Alex

[streptile]

He means there was no reason to create a "new form" as the old Imperial form had nothing to do with the nazis. Imperial awards were made right alongside 57er awards by producers for the veterans of WW1 that earned them.

Right, better said

[Mike Yokum]

He means there was no reason to create a "new form" as the old Imperial form had nothing to do with the nazis. Imperial awards were made right alongside 57er awards by producers for the veterans of WW1 that earned them.

Yep. Thanks Don.

The award could very well have been made along side New Form awards in 1957, but it is not a New Form award. It could be an S&L as the hardware has an S&L look to it. The quality to the obverse seems somewhat below S&L standards, but as demand for awards decreased so did budget to keep production standards at proper levels.

Again, interesting piece.

[Ron C.]

Very interesting fellows......thanks.

Does anyone have any thoughts on desireability, scarcity or worth of the badge?

Thanks,
Ron