WW1 Tank Badge

[Don D.]

My comment was because I have long admired his badge. Your comment is innuendo that suggests you either know something or have a different theory.

[Leibhusar]

Sorry, but I can not tell you another theory. I think Robin is right. I hope he is right and more badges exist than we think, because nobody wants a fake in his collection. But in my opinion we should think positive.....

[Robin Lumsden]

To expand on my previous point, the following is worth bearing in mind.

The 1921 Tank Badge was instituted by Dr. Gessler, Reich Minister of Defence........'to celebrate the accomplishments of the men of the tank units that were disbanded in accordance with the peace treaty'. These are the words used in the institution order.

When the badge was created, there were no longer any German tank units and no likelihood of panzers being built in the forseeable future.

The badge was to be open to any former tank troops who participated in at least 3 combat actions in 1918. Freikorps tankers were excluded.

Importantly........applications for the award had to be submitted by the men themselves, who then received a certificate authorising them to possess the badge. The badge was NOT presented with the certificate by the government. It was up to each man to buy the badge commercially.

Just as the government did not issue the badges, it did not specify the exact design of the badge either!

It is believed that Juncker was the first maker of the badge, and produced it with the Prussian skull at the top......like in the attached illustration, which comes from one of the award citations.

During the 1920s and 1930s, other makers became involved and badges were produced with the Brunswick skull as is usually encountered.

There were hundreds of medal and badge makers in Germany during the 1920s and early 1930, chruning out all kinds of awards in varying qualities. It was precisely because of this that Hitler introduced his directives licensing medal makers and prohibiting unauthorised manufacture from 1933.

So........while it is true that this badge has been heavily faked, it is also true that there is a range of originals.

The illustration below shows the first type.........I have never actually seen a surviving example of this.

[Robin Lumsden]

Here is a type 1 as worn by Sepp Dietrich.......

[Robin Lumsden]

.....Sepp with type 1......

[Robin Lumsden]

...and Sepp with the usual type 2......a markedly different design.....

[Robin Lumsden]

So, while there may have been only a very small number of potential recipients, there were multiple makers, to the extent that there were 2 totally different designs of this badge. Remember........the 1921 Tank Badge was made in an era when the manufacture of German military awards was NOT REGULATED!

Even when the manufacture of awards WAS strictly regulated, during the Third Reich, you only have to look at the Close Combat Clasp in Gold.........a few hundred recipients, but several makers.

Same with the Knight's Cross of the War Merit Cross.

I rest my case!

[Don D.]

I will point out the obvious too. Sepp owned at least two of these badges. I'm sure most of the other awardees would have too since wearing your stuff was all the rage back then.

[Robin Lumsden]

I will point out the obvious too. Sepp owned at least two of these badges. I'm sure most of the other awardees would have too since wearing your stuff was all the rage back then.

Korrekt!

The bottom line was, they could buy as many as they liked. If a former tanker wanted to buy six badges, one for each of his six Reichswehr tunics, he was perfectly entitled to do so.

I believe that later holders of the Krimschild etc. were actually issued with half a dozen shields as these had to be sewn on and so obviously could not be moved around between field and dress uniforms.

[Brian S]

Looking at the many photos of Sepp, I thought I detected three different badges. None of the photos good enough to discreetly id a badge. But the original Type I produced from the document existed and must have been produced perhaps with a weak pin/catch or was somewhat crude or perhaps the badge in silver like Robin's caught Sepp's eye and he switched to the mirror like badge for obvious reasons.

[Robin Lumsden]

Another minor point........

Although the Germans produced only around 20 A7V tanks, they captured over 170 British tanks to refurbish and use.

Around 50 British tanks were captured by the Germans after the Battle of Cambrai alone.

Doesn't this point to there being a lot more than 100 potential recipients of the badge?

[Don D.]

Doing the math points to almost 400 just for the A7Vs.

[Robin Lumsden]

Doing the math points to almost 400 just for the A7Vs.

I used to go along with the '100 recipients' thing, bearing in mind that they needed to have taken part in 3 actions to qualify, but the more I look into this, the more I'm inclined to believe that there must have been many more potential holders of this badge.

I've never been able to find a source or Order of Battle giving the number of men who served in the German tank formations during WW1.

[Don D.]

Who got it?

[Mike Kenny]

Not me. Nice to know these "800" variants are worth so much these days! Another different hinge/pin/catch assembly though.

Regards
Mike