Uboot 1918 is it OK?

[ww1czechlegion]

I've often wondered if the possibility of an auction section will ever be capable on e-stand. It would take a large amount of software development and investment to make it happen, and it probably is not feasible.

The positive side of e-stand for a seller is that there is no seller's commission charged. The downside for seller's in a fixed price format situation is that sometimes things sell for less than they would as compared to an auction style format where bidders fight over a super nice, highly desirable item such as this and drive the price higher.

The downside of a fixed price sale for potential customers is that that a potential customer needs to be constantly monitoring the sale venue in order to be the first lucky person to see the item listed and let the seller know they want to buy it. I guess it's the same situation when compared to finding something first at a military show before anyone else does, so that is just how it goes. It's what we do at the Show of Shows, circling around and around again at the show in order to try to find something new being put out on a table for sale first before anyone else finds it during the first day to day and a half of the show.

A beautiful badge indeed. Someone here will be the lucky person to find a new home for it. Good luck to all.

Best Wishes,

Alan

[Don D.]

I think Wilhelm Deumer, Steinhauer & Lück and Paul Meybauer are the manufacturers. Walter Schott was the designer.

https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/de...chen-1918.html

Schott not only designed the badge, he produced them early on.

[BubbaZ]

Schott not only designed the badge, he produced them early on.

Hi Don,
What makes you say that Schott did produce Schott marked u-boat badges? Just wondering if some new evidence emerged recently since I have yet to see any badge or medal that is attributed to Schott as manufacturer.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

This badge was produced by Schott I believe. The green is not verdigris but an applied painted coloring. Gordon Williamson discovered this a few years back if memory serves my correctly.

Juncker had their own design.

I agree, that Juncker had their own design.

Gordon mentioned green finish on Schott marked u-boats in his article in Military Advisor vol.24/1 (winter 2012/2013) "Walter Schott and the Imperial Uboot Badge". In this article he quoted the letter from the Reichswehrministerium about Zeppelin badges that was discovered and published by Carsten Baldes in his book "Aircrew Badges and Honor Prizes of the Flying Troops from 1913 to 1920 ". In this letter it was stated that:
"The badge, designed by Professor W. Schott, is similar to the U-Boat badge, a silver wreath, patinated green, with a matte silver airship placed transversely across it. As it is stamped and not cast like the official U-Boat badge, execution of the badge is very fine."
1546448689_img_20190102_0952571n.jpg I enclose Carsten's translation of this letter.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Don D.]

Well, if you had to send 40 marks to Professor Schott to get one then who was making them? Not Junker, Meybauer etc... They have different designs. Perhaps the word making should be changed to producing.

[BubbaZ]

Well, if you had to send 40 marks to Professor Schott to get one then who was making them? Not Junker, Meybauer etc... They have different designs. Perhaps the word making should be changed to producing.

Hi Don,
Thanks for your reply.
An instruction to obtain badges from Professor Schott included in the above letter relates to Naval Zeppelin badges exclusively.
So the theory behind attribution of Schott marked u-boat badges to Professor Schott as a maker goes like this (correct me pls if I missed something):
1. Professor Schott designed both u-boat badge and later zeppelin badge in a very similar style. The U-boat badge was cast, not struck, contrary to the zeppelin badge, but likewise featured the green patinated finish. (true)
2. Professor Schott was solely distributing naval zeppelin badges in early years after the badge was instituted. (true)
3 Since Professor Schott as a designer was also a seller of naval zeppelin badges then most likely he also produced them. (?)
4. Since Schott marked u-boat badge and navy zeppelin badge share the same very unique type of green patinated finish then it indicates that u-boat badge was also produced by Professor Schott. (???)

Very overstretched assumptions IMO, but it is still possible that Professor Schott subcontracted production of naval zeppelin badges to an unknown maker and acted as a distributor.
The problem is that we do not know what type of naval zeppelin badge was distributed by Professor Schott since there is not known any example attributed to Schott or marked 'Walter Schott fec.'. Possibly all badges distributed by him were unmarked or marked by actual makers? In such case statement 3 above is not true. (and 4 does not make any sense). Interestingly a 'Walter Schott fec.' marks on army zeppelin and u-boat badges are very similiar or the same with missing T which may indicate the same subcontractor for production? It is very unlikely IMO that Schott as a famous artist would accept such defective mark if he produce these badges by himself.

Furthermore, Professor Schott was a famous artist but we have yet to see any other badge or medal attributed to him as a maker except of imperial u-boat and zeppelin badges attributed based on above assumptions.

Cheers,
Hubert

[germanmedals]

Thank you all for firm discussion. Rarely a thread gets so active this days on forum. Badge is on estand available to have.

[Don D.]

Hi Don,
Thanks for your reply.
An instruction to obtain badges from Professor Schott included in the above letter relates to Naval Zeppelin badges exclusively.
So the theory behind attribution of Schott marked u-boat badges to Professor Schott as a maker goes like this (correct me pls if I missed something):
1. Professor Schott designed both u-boat badge and later zeppelin badge in a very similar style. The U-boat badge was cast, not struck, contrary to the zeppelin badge, but likewise featured the green patinated finish. (true)
2. Professor Schott was solely distributing naval zeppelin badges in early years after the badge was instituted. (true)
3 Since Professor Schott as a designer was also a seller of naval zeppelin badges then most likely he also produced them. (?)
4. Since Schott marked u-boat badge and navy zeppelin badge share the same very unique type of green patinated finish then it indicates that u-boat badge was also produced by Professor Schott. (???)

Very overstretched assumptions IMO, but it is still possible that Professor Schott subcontracted production of naval zeppelin badges to an unknown maker and acted as a distributor.
The problem is that we do not know what type of naval zeppelin badge was distributed by Professor Schott since there is not known any example attributed to Schott or marked 'Walter Schott fec.'. Possibly all badges distributed by him were unmarked or marked by actual makers? In such case statement 3 above is not true. (and 4 does not make any sense). Interestingly a 'Walter Schott fec.' marks on army zeppelin and u-boat badges are very similiar or the same with missing T which may indicate the same subcontractor for production? It is very unlikely IMO that Schott as a famous artist would accept such defective mark if he produce these badges by himself.

Furthermore, Professor Schott was a famous artist but we have yet to see any other badge or medal attributed to him as a maker except of imperial u-boat and zeppelin badges attributed based on above assumptions.

Cheers,
Hubert

Here is an older discussion with further links. Also a search of this forum with "Schott, Gordon" will turn up more.

https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...badge?t=690861

[BubbaZ]

Thanks Don , I am familiar with this thread.
I am not contesting the statement that 'Walter Schott fec.' marked u-boat badges have featured green patinated finish, no question about it. They have as well as some Maybauers but the green finish on Meybauers was more lacquer-like.
What I wanted to say is that the fact that 'Walter Schott fec.' marked u-boats and navy zeppelin badges featured similiar green patinated finish does not make them being produced by an artist who designed them and never produced any badge before or later on. Although this is still possible that Professor Schott could subcontract production of navy zeppelin badges to professional medal maker in order to distribute them later. Unfortunately we can only speculate about it since we have no sufficient evidence and the only document Gordon and Carsten are reffering to when attributing these badges to Schott is the one I posted above.
Cheers,
Hubert