New Imperial Ribbon Bars

[Ian Hulley]

Thanks Gil ... what is the red ladder like vanity ribbon is pos.8 please ?

Next up ... Prussian Red Eagle Order or General Service Award please ? ..

Bar 8.JPG

Bar 8 reverse.JPG

Bar 4.JPG

Bar 4 reverse.JPG

Many thanks yet again, Ian.

[Gardereiter]

RE: Post # 14, Top Bar

After studying the top bar for a bit, I can honestly say I am not "getting" it nor am I genuinely "feeling" it. I can't wrap my head around what is going on with the combination of awards. As a Saxon collector, I have to stop and think about what the ribbon of the Saxon Military Commemorative Cross for the 1866 War (position 6) is doing 2 places away from the Argonne Cross (position 8) since these 2 events happened half-a-century apart. Also, the white center stripe of the first ribbon is just a tiny bit too narrow for the Maria Theresa Order. It would therefore have to represent the Italian Order of the Crown, which makes no sense, especially in position no. 1. Like I said... I'm just not "feeling" it. The back looks very proper, on the other hand.

[Ian Hulley]

I bought it based on the construction and the ribbons which seemed authentic ... I 'know' 3rd Reich bars I guess but not obscure Imperial

What are your thoughts regarding the Red Eagle/General Honour decoration please ?

Ian

[Gardereiter]

RE: Post # 16

My vote is for the General Service Medal in position 1. The bottom bar is a nice, solid Weimar-period assembled bar with a connection to service during the Boxer Rebellion. The ribbon-bar frames with the gray lead-paint and DRP stamped on the back first appeared in the 1920s. What I like about this bar is that the the small metal tabs on the reverse retain their gray lead-paint unmarred which tells me the bar has undergone NO manipulation since it was first assembled.

Nice bars !!!

[Gardereiter]

I bought it based on the construction and the ribbons which seemed authentic ... I 'know' 3rd Reich bars I guess but not obscure Imperial

The ribbons are definitely period ribbons. I like the hardware as well !! I would be curious to hear what Vince might say about this bar. Maybe he can make sense of the combination of awards... because I sure can't. Sorry.

[Ian Hulley]

Many many thanks to you both Gil and Vince, here are some (slightly out of date) shots of my bar cabinet drawers ..

Drawer 1.JPG
Drawer 2.JPG
Drawer 3.JPG
Drawer 4.JPG
Drawer 5.JPG
Drawer 6.JPG

[Ian Hulley]

3rd Reich bars

Drawer 7.JPG
Drawer 8.JPG
Drawer 9.JPG
Drawer 10.JPG
Drawer 11.JPG
And the case itself ..

Case 2.JPG

Many thanks again everyone

Cheers, Ian.

[Gardereiter]

A high-end collection like this takes a lot of time, patience and a very keen eye to assemble. The variety of interesting and rare combinations of awards is very impressive. Even the bars with single awards are little gems. I started compiling a list of favorite bars in my head, but the list got too long.

[Ian Hulley]

A high-end collection like this takes a lot of time, patience and a very keen eye to assemble. The variety of interesting and rare combinations of awards is very impressive. Even the bars with single awards are little gems. I started compiling a list of favorite bars in my head, but the list got too long.

Thank you Gil, you are very kind.

I guess the ribbon bars have been my main focus for the past 3 or 4 years since I hit the monetary ceiling for loose medals.

Frame.jpg

Cheers everyone, Ian.

[VtwinVince]

Wow, that big one is very impressive, and no doubt a unique combo, so ID could be possible. And congrats on a very impressive collection.

[Ian Hulley]

Wow, that big one is very impressive, and no doubt a unique combo, so ID could be possible. And congrats on a very impressive collection.

Cheers Vince, it would be great to actually have an ID'd bar but it's not the end of the World if it isn't.

Thank you for your kind words re the collection, the medals you see there is actually the drawer from our glass topped coffee table

Cheers, Ian.

[Gardereiter]

Wow, that big one is very impressive, and no doubt a unique combo, so ID could be possible.

As I mentioned above, I'm a bit unsettled about this one.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the bar's owner did, in fact, receive the Maria Theresa Order and chose not to wear the ribbon in his buttonhole but rather on his ribbon bar, and that the bar's assembler used an Italian Crown Order ribbon because he didn't have a Maria Theresa ribbon in stock (i.e. wider white stripe.) Let's also say that the owner was a participant in the 1866 Prussian-Austrian War and the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71. Here's what we then have on the bar:


Position 1.) Austrian Maria Theresa Order

Position 2.) Lippe Detmold War Merit Cross for Combattants

Position 3.) Princely House Order of Hohenzollern or the Order of Bene Merenti

Position 4.) Prussian Officer's Long Service (or a blue ribbon that was too dark used for the Prussian Crown Order or the Wuerttemberg Friedrich Order)

Position 5.) Franco-Prussian War Commemorative Medal

Position 6.) Saxon Commemorative Cross for Combattants of the 1866 Prussian-Austrian War

Position 7.) Swedish Order of the Sword

Position 8.) Argonne Cross 1920 issued by the Kameradschaftsbund Deutscher Ost- und Westfrontkämpfer

Position 9.) Austria Order of Leopold, Knights Cross OR the Honor Cross of the German Red Cross 1922


Does anybody have any further thoughts about what specific awards are represented on the bar? I would love to hear some opinions on this list of awards before I start pouring through rank-lists and award rolls. The owner would have definitely had some neck decorations, pinback crosses or stars and possibly one or two grand crosses in light of the other awards present on the bar.

[Don D.]

Prussia Crown Order and Red eagle Order would be on the neck? Why no Centenar Medal? Perhaps a civil-military official during WW1. He would be a Saxon and I assume the last ribbon is the Red Cross.

[Ian Hulley]

Ok, the history as far as I know it ... I bought it as part of a group from a respected member here (Alan G) as attached below ...

Bars 16th May.JPG

And this was the email I received with the prices ...

Bars.JPG

Cheers, Ian.

[Gardereiter]

Prussia Crown Order and Red eagle Order would be on the neck? Why no Centenar Medal? Perhaps a civil-military official during WW1. He would be a Saxon and I assume the last ribbon is the Red Cross.

Thanks for your input. I'm also leaning toward him being a Saxon. And yes... if he received the 2nd Class Red Eagle and the 2nd Class Prussian Crown, it would have caused these two awards to be moved from his bar to his neck. And like you pointed out, the absence of a Centenar Medal was one of the things that bothered me about this bar.

The time-span of his service is staggering. Assuming he was 18 years old during the War of 1866, he would have been 74 years old at the time he received the Red Cross Honor Cross in 1922 or later AND at the time this ribbon bar was assembled.

My biggest concern about the bar is the Military-Maria-Theresa Order. This the highest military award of the Austro-Hungarian Empire... the equivalent of the U.S. Medal of Honor. There is no higher Austrian military award than this one, and the people who received this award includes a short list of brilliant and/or well-connected military and naval officers. The owner of Ian's bar is almost undoubtedly a Beamten and I just can't imagine the Maria Theresa awarded to a German Beamten. And frankly, I can't think of what other award this ribbon could logically represent. There is no way it could be the Italian Crown Order and it's definitely not the Hamburg Cross!