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    #16
    Suspect Silesian Eagle II with Wreath and Swords

    Another from 'the Club'.

    I'm not sure about this. It looks ok, except perhaps for the wonky crescent. I should think that the maker could have centred it better in the recess.

    Opinions???

    One is always scared off by anything from these people because they mostly sell very high quality fakes, or items that have been manipulated in some way.

    They do seem to have a smattering of genuine items this time around. But, I feel it's better to just avoid everything from them.
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      #17
      Suspect Marine Brigade v. Loewenfeld Cross II

      Yet again, another from "the Club'.

      I'm not sure about this one. as well. The strike is very crisp, the detals clean and sharp. The maker's mark is how it normally appears. I've seen more obvious fakes where the maker's mark is too deep and pronounced.

      What bothers me somewhat is the finish, paticularly that tell-tale, black patina, especially on the reverse. The contact marks on the reverse also seem far too intense. Mounted, this cross would have likely been tied down, along with other medals and would not have moved enough to create such scratches, unless it was on a spange with hooks and dangled free, banging into other medals.

      Admittedly a lot of these were made with slightly different finishes. But, the ones I've seen are usually 'pickled': a dark-brownish (not as black as this), artifical patina in the recesses and all over the reverse, with the highlights on the obverse showing the bronze base metal. The highlights are sometimes lightly gilded.

      Since they were all made by Paul Kust, Berlin, I should think that there wouldn't be that many differences in how these should look.

      Am I being too picky? I'd love to hear from an expert who thinks this is real.

      I have a document and am looking for one I trust.
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        #18
        Marine Brigade v. Loewenfeld Cross II

        This is also on eBay from another seller. It has the wrong ribbon.

        I like this one, although the price of 499 Euros is about double it's value.
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          #19
          The first Loewenfeld cross is a fake for sure, the second one (with wrong ribbon) makes me nervious Would be great to see better pictures of reverse.
          A question--do you own this Silesian Eagle? Any better pictures?

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by Destruction View Post
            The first Loewenfeld cross is a fake for sure, the second one (with wrong ribbon) makes me nervious Would be great to see better pictures of reverse.
            A question--do you own this Silesian Eagle? Any better pictures?
            I agree with you about the first. I'm still not sure about the 2nd cross. You're right that better pictures would help.

            No, I don't own this Silesian Eagle. The auction on eBay is still on. I have thought about bidding, except for the reputation of the seller and the fact that I'm bothered by details on this medal.

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              #21
              Marine Brigade Loewenfeld Cross

              Here's another currently offered on Militaria123. I'm sorry that the pictures are not sharper.

              Despite the sketchy reputation of this online auction, I feel the most comfortable with this cross.

              Opinions on this one?
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                #22
                Marine Brigade Loewenfeld Cross 1cl

                Here's a first class of the Lowenfeld Ehrenkreuz that's completely different and from a different vendor than the 2nd class, again on Militaria123.

                The oxidization is over the top and looks like it was applied with a paintbrush.

                The pin is also unusual for this cross, and similar to the types seen on "the Club" pieces.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Brian L.; 10-15-2011, 11:29 PM.

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                  #23
                  a similar cross to the below cross now currently on eBay by another incarnation of the "the club", raritaetensammlerclub.

                  Scary quality, but not right. These crosses never had hardware like that on the reverse. Also, I don't like the gilt finish.
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                    #24
                    Bug Stern by "the club"

                    What appears to be an exact die struck of the original badge.

                    But, the finish is completely wrong - too shiny. These were made of tombak and had what is known as a 'mattweiss' finish, i.e. frosted silver, which is always dull, tarnished and worn with age. I've never seen one of these that didn't have wear to the silvering and to the black paint in the central medallion. The same goes for the reverse. Usually the reverse is quite toned.

                    The hardware is pretty close to the originals which followed the type seen on standard wound badges. The catch even has the proper sweat-plate below the hook attaching it to the badge. But, the pin is too thin, the hinge looks a little too frail and the black above it looks to be heat discoloration from attaching it to the badge.

                    The quality of badges from these people is generally quite high and can easily fool novice collectors and perhaps even a few more knowledgeable ones.

                    As a general rule, just stay away from anything they offer.
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                      #25
                      Bug Stern comparison

                      The one on the right is an authentic Bug Stern.

                      Looking at the comparison, it appears that the fake is actually a new die-cut strike.

                      The lettering is more closely spaced and slightly stretched vertically on the fake making it a different font. The swords are lacking the center ridge and the central medallion appears to not be pebbled as seen on the original. The transluscent black lacquer on the original seems to have been replaced with ordinary gloss black paint on the fake. The fake also seems flatter. The originals have a very pronounced vault. I've never seen any variation on the originals and believe there was only one manufacturer of this pattern, which is generally referred to as the OR's pattern. Officer's badges tend to be silver and enamel (blue central medallion with a green wreath) screw-back with a circular disk and wing-nut and marked DRGM and sometimes 800.

                      This fake is good. But, if you've had an original in your hands, it would never fool you.
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                        #26
                        Genuine Bug Stern side view showing the vaulting.
                        Attached Files

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                          #27
                          Fake Ehrhardt Brigade 2nd pattern badge

                          At first, I thought this badge, being offered on eBay was just a variation, given the numbers in the brigade and the longevity of this badge. However, I think this badge is actually a 'new cut' badge which at first looks convincing. But, there are a number of details that begin to stand out as completely wrong.

                          The fake is on the left and an original is on the right from Philipp-Militaria which matches the one in von Solomon's book.

                          The most obvious details that are wrong are the font (the font on the fake is just sloppy-note the soft 'a' and in particular the base of the 'h' which should curve parallel to the curve of the frame, but doesn't on the fake), the head of the dragon (little detail on the fake) and the fact that the tillerman is absent on the fake and replaced by what looks like a bit of sail, which doesn't make any sense on a viking ship.

                          Be careful out there and always try to compare with a known authentic badge.

                          eBay is a minefield for the novice.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Brian L.; 12-22-2011, 07:21 AM.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Fake Ehrhardt First Pattern on eBay

                            I hope nobody on WAF bought this badge for the astounding 199 Euros on eBay. It has excellent detail (actually better than originals) and is very convincing. But IMO, it's in fact a newly designed and cut badge and doesn't conform to the known types of originals of this badge.

                            There are too many creases in the sail. Originals only have creases at the top and bottom as the sail is in full billow and taut, so wouldn't have creases like this. The details of the planking on the side of the ship is too pronounced. The grooves are too deep that separate the planks. Actual badges have rather shallow grooves. The lettering on the word 'Wilhemshaven' is thinner and taller than original badges. The waves are different and smore sharply defined than known badges and lastly, it has 2 holes for sewing instead of one. This last point seems minor. But, the number of wholes is mentioned by Haarke and is significant because as far is known, only the pattern with the cutout oakleaves had 2 holes for sewing.
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                              #29
                              Originally posted by bolewts58 View Post
                              I hope nobody on WAF bought this badge for the astounding 199 Euros on eBay. It has excellent detail (actually better than originals) and is very convincing. But IMO, it's in fact a newly designed and cut badge and doesn't conform to the known types of originals of this badge.

                              There are too many creases in the sail. Originals only have creases at the top and bottom as the sail is in full billow and taut, so wouldn't have creases like this. The details of the planking on the side of the ship is too pronounced. The grooves are too deep that separate the planks. Actual badges have rather shallow grooves. The lettering on the word 'Wilhemshaven' is thinner and taller than original badges. The waves are different and smore sharply defined than known badges and lastly, it has 2 holes for sewing instead of one. This last point seems minor. But, the number of wholes is mentioned by Haarke and is significant because as far is known, only the pattern with the cutout oakleaves had 2 holes for sewing.
                              199 Euro? That was no good deal for buyer.

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Sergeant 08 View Post
                                199 Euro? That was no good deal for buyer.
                                Even if real, that's approaching retail price. Some people get carried away.

                                Here's a more detailed comparison between this badge and others from the same die compared with authentic badges. When you see them side by side, you can see all the differences.
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