RE: Thale B-II Stahlhelm auction

[Mike G.]

My "Liner" comments in a preceding post may be confusing.

Clarification.

The Liner System 44 developed for replacement of the original liner in the Wehrmacht M-35 helmet, was found to work very well in the new prototype helmets.

However, Dr. Hansel, who was a consultant in the production and testing of the new prototype helmets, developed a newer Liner System named of course, after Dr. Hansel.

So it is possible, prototype helmets, if still around today, could have either the newer Liner System 44 or the liner developed by Hansel.

Additionally, it should probably be noted that the B and B/II were intentionally produced without ventilation holes. This is remarked upon in the Baer Book on page 399.

[Brian Ice]

Most likely, it is a fake. If you don't mind, I think I will start grilling some cheeze sandwiches!!

The prevalence of the idea that these prototypes were all destroyed and no longer exist is probably why I was able to acquire my own quite reasonably. Very few would believe it even if a real one were on ebay.

Would you care to guess where mine came from? EBAY!!

Here is the original description on the auction:

In good condition, minor scuffing. Liner and chin strap are good. I did not find any marks to identify the type of helmet. Thank everyone that has emailed me on this helmet to properly identify this post WWII helmet. I have been told this is a vopo, M56, post war German helmet that never made it to production. I am clueless, sorry for mix up. Shipping will be based on a 5lb priority rate to your zip. Thank You.

As you can see, it is basically a mesh of two different descriptions that the seller was told; a helmet that never made it to production (B/II), and a post war VOPO M56.

How much would you think a VOPO M56 helmet should start for on ebay?
How about $25!! That was the starting bid. Of course, several bidders other than myself recognized it for what it was. This is how I actually dreamed I would find one of these. Dreams do come true!

As was mentioned earlier, a vet likely got it in trade in Berlin from a Russian soldier who before had picked it up after the battle with the infantry school cadets.

This vet likely knew he had something special, but just kept it to himself for all of these years. Then one day 60 some years later, the vet has a stroke or whatever and is sent to a resthome. The family or whomever sells his possessions to a dealer who then auctions them off on EBAY!!

I have one other ND M42 from this same vet.

[iannima]

Would you care to guess where mine came from?

Brian,
It is nice to know that the Holy Grail is still out there to be found! I can only renew my congratulations on your find, but the truth is that no congratulation, however exceptionally worded, can even get close to what you've got!

[Mike G.]

Brian,
It is nice to know that the Holy Grail is still out there to be found! I can only renew my congratulations on your find, but the truth is that no congratulation, however exceptionally worded, can even get close to what you've got!

What Matteo said. Only double.

[Brian Ice]

1.

[Brian Ice]

2. Here is the latest 'B/II' prototype to hit (German) Ebay:Item number: 220188278781

Price so far: <TABLE cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=1 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap>EUR 426.00 </TD><TD width="85%"></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=2><NOBR>(approximately US $627.92) </NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I have been watching this one closely. It just recently started to shoot up.

Habe in Opas altem Schuppen einen Helm gefunden. Kann nichts damit anfangen da ich von solchen Dingen keine Ahnung habe. Aber vielleicht ist jemand hier der Spaß an dem alten Teil hat.
Wie gesagt ich kenn mich nicht aus kann also auch nicht viele Infos geben ausser das in dem Helm ein Stempel ist
erste Zeile : ein B und eine römische zwei
zweite Zeile: O
dritte Zeile: vermutlich ein Reichsadler
den Rest müsst ihr den Fotos entnehmen.

Found in their grandfathers barn, they say? With a B, roman numeral II, O, and a Reichsadler. Just the way some would expect it to be marked.

I marked with lines the approximate areas that appears to show possible DDR M56 stud mounting holes.

FINAL PRICE: <TABLE cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=1 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=left width="25%">Winning bid:</TD><TD noWrap>EUR 826.00 </TD><TD width="85%"></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=2><NOBR>(approximately US $1,209.10)</NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Jägermeister]

this is the helmet from ebay, which is currently in this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

I always asked me, if it is real or not...

[Brian Ice]

Thanks for the link, Jaeger.

To clarify concerning DDR M56 and B/II helmets;

the visor is the upper portion at the front of the helmet

The neckguard is the lower portion at the rear of the helmet

The scallops are the transitional areas on either side (2)


What I have found is that the B/II has a more narrow visor. The DDR M56 visor is wider by about 1+5/8 inch: significant, IMO. (both size 57cm liners)

IMO the DDR design may have called for a wider visor for better vision.


My point is, notice how far apart the two front studs of this helmet are (wide visor). On my B/II posted previously they are noticably closer together (more narrow visor).

[Brian Ice]

Anyone can take a DDR M56 shell, grind off the rim, plug some old holes, drill some new holes, paint/age it to make it appear very old.

The resultant rim can even have its corners honed down to give it a factory produced appearance.

All of this can be done in a garage with a grinder, drill, file, and paint. (I have done it myself)


Then post this for sale with an insufficient quantity of poor photos and a nice story to go with it, and it seems that hundreds of EUROS can be made.


But what you have is a B/II look-alike with a DDR-style wide visor. To narrow the visor to the B/II width would require the great effort of welding/adding steel and then making it appear as though it was always there:

something IMO far beyond the abilities of the average garage tinkerer.

[Brian Ice]

I closely examined 4 helmets to make the above comments:

-M45-B (w/M44 liner)
-B/II Thale prototype
-M56 DDR (1st type- II 9 59)
-M56/BII modified look-alike (II 4 60)

Apparently, the bidders did not read my posts. Latest price:

EUR 616.00-EUR 710.00

[paracaidista]

I´m the buyer of that helmet

I bought the helmet and I think is a real one.
Probably tomorrow I put a photograph of it. I had studiing this helmets from years ago.
Sorry me english is not very good.
Well probably tomorrow.

I closely examined 4 helmets to make the above comments:

-M45-B (w/M44 liner)
-B/II Thale prototype
-M56 DDR (1st type- II 9 59)
-M56/BII modified look-alike (II 4 60)

Apparently, the bidders did not read my posts. Latest price:

EUR 616.00-EUR 710.00

[paracaidista]

Other thing

If finally is a fake I can use that as an ash tray.
Expensive ash tray.

[Brian Ice]

I certainly hope that I am wrong.
<TABLE cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=1 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap>EUR 826.00 </TD><TD width="85%"></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=2><NOBR>(approximately US $1,217.52) </NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That is one expensive ashtray.

I was thinking it could be from the first run made by Volklingen Stahlwerke. I have never actually seen one of these so I can't say for sure.

I understand that the M44 liner was originaly designed as a replacement for the M31 (stahlhelm 35), so an M44 liner should fit either stahlhelm 35 or B/II (same size shell). I found that the centerline measurements between the front rivets of both helmets are the same.

I was curious because the measurements between the front rivets of your helmet seem to be larger than mine.

[sgtdorango]

I hope its the real deal and i cant wait to see more detailed pics either way.....mike

[paracaidista]

How can I put a photo

Please say me how put a photograph in the forum and I send it.