taken most likely before the war...
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Do you have the photoalbum that this picture came from? And do you by chance know what year before the war the picture was taken? thanks for posting this photo...
Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did. Quote - Sophie Scholl - White Rose resistance group -
i've asked the seller for some details, will let you know as soon as i hear from him.Originally posted by Ralph Pickard View PostDo you have the photoalbum that this picture came from? And do you by chance know what year before the war the picture was taken? thanks for posting this photo...Comment
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Thanks much...I will stay tuned...
Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did. Quote - Sophie Scholl - White Rose resistance groupComment
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nothing, sorry... this is what i just received from the seller,
"Unfortunately, we don't know anything more. We found it in a box of old medals and papers we bought at the monthly antique market in Leipzig, Germany a number of years ago and that is all we know."Comment
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Polish photo
They wear model 36 tunics, so the photo must have been taken after 1936. Round caps were worn by KOP (border guard) and 2 or 3 lancer regiments. Lancers had light color bands: yellow and white if I remeber correctly. KOP had green, so officers from that photo look like from KOP. Interestig mix: officers with round walking out hats wear field light weight tunics (no collar patches). Officer in the center wears walking out tunic (with patches) and overseas cap which was a field uniform element.
JackComment
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fascinating! thank you for that info Jack. perhaps these officers were on the border when the Germans crossed or otherwise murdered at Katyn. chances are...Originally posted by cossack1648 View PostComment
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Officers
KOP was guarding Eastern Border, so probably they were captured by Russians.
JackComment
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Jack - Thanks for adding for very useful information in dating the photo and background as to who they are...thanks.Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did. Quote - Sophie Scholl - White Rose resistance groupComment
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For me it is picture from early 50' and shows infantry officers. I bet branch color of tabs is red - infantry. Not pre war KOP. Sorry.
Please look better eagles on caps. They are postwar.Comment
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Ohlau - thanks for your last post...when time permits, can you post any pictures that show what you called out...thanks...
Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did. Quote - Sophie Scholl - White Rose resistance groupComment
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photo
It is hard for me too see eagle details especially if they heve crown or not. They look like model 19 to me with officer in the middle wearing different version of it.
Dating that photo to be pre war I made my assumption based on:
There is a horse driven cart in the background that looks like military prewar one. Were they still in use in the 50's?
Officer on the right appears to have 7 button tunic (prewar standard), not 6 button (post war standard). I am not saying that 7 botton were not made after the war, yes they were but were rare and not regulation.
Collar tabs look very dark which would be correct for dark blue (infantry). They have light color trim in the back which can be light green for KOP. Were tab trims still been used in 50's, this I don't know.
They wear straight leg pants, which were worn by KOP and many other officers in walking out outfit. During early postwar period breeches and high boots would be my guess.
Belt buckle worn by officer in the right is smaller (prewar type) than typical postwar one.
Were such typical prewar cut overseas cap been still in use in the 50's?
Did round hats from 50's have metal trim?
I am not saying that I am 100% right. Polish pre and early post war uniforms were very similar with detail differences that are hard to tell from photos.
JackComment
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photo
One more thing:
Officer in the middle in walking out tunic looks to have a regimentel badge on the left pocket. Such badges were not worn after the war. I can only recall Grunwald badge to be worn in this location, which had different shape than the one in the photo.
JackComment
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Kop
Here is a link to some info about KOP uniforms
http://www.weu1918-1939.pl/piechota/...zapka_kop.html
Other thread about KOP
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=471089
Regards, JackComment
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YES, and even laterThere is a horse driven cart in the background that looks like military prewar one. Were they still in use in the 50's?"
It prove nothing. I can not see whole tunic and all buttons. 7 button tunic is nothing unsual in late 40/early 50'. Many tunics were still made on private order in this same pre-war taylors.Officer on the right appears to have 7 button tunic (prewar standard), not 6 button (post war standard).
I'm sorry, this overseas cap is typical post war cut ! Soldiers and Officers KOP never wore this kind overseas cap. I saw many private pictures KOP's soldier and none had overseas cap.Were such typical prewar cut overseas cap been still in use in the 50's?
Not true. Not only "Grunwald" were in use. Have you ever heard about 1. Infantry Division (Tadeusz Kościuszko Division or "Berling's division") badges ?Such badges were not worn after the war
Apart from that in late 40' and early 50' Polish Army established a lot of different army speciality badges like "Wzorowy dowódca", "Wzorowy strzelec" etc. (Excellent Commander", "Excellent Shooter", Excellent Driver" and many moore). So again badge from pic can't prove pre war time.
And few details :
Round caps in picture are typical wz. 1949. Of course they are optical similar to KOP's caps, but in true they are very different. Shape, round, and visor, much shorter than in pre war KOP's round cap ("English Cap" - that was official polish name of pre war round visors - God knows reason of this name).
Collar tabs - for me not same type as pre war KOP's. Post war tabs also had many color variation. Dark reed as other guys's caps rounds color or mayby black. Hard to say from photo in sepia.
Another detail : no prewar KOP officer wore puttees to trousers. Only high boots. These puttees to trousers are also typical post-war era. In this time wearing puttees by officers in training camps were in standard.
Adding everything up it is post war photo, made probably on training camp.Comment
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