Czech "Medal for Merit in the Defence of the Homeland" on a DDR Ribbon Bar

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

I have a ribbon bar that I believe belonged to a DDR General because of the medals it includes. The last one "Medal for Merit in Defence of the Homeland" could not have been awarded to too many foreigners. Can anyone tell me if it was common or rare that these medals were awarded to those of other nations? Does anyone know if it would be possible, and how to do it, to trace who this medal was araded to.

Regards,

Gordon

[Soviet]

Sorry that I can't help. but it must be rather unusual to find a medal bar with DDR, Soviet and Czech medal. Could it be a made up group? If not it's really an interesting group.

[desantnik]

Gents,

I have a ribbon bar that I believe belonged to a DDR General because of the medals it includes. The last one "Medal for Merit in Defence of the Homeland" could not have been awarded to too many foreigners. Can anyone tell me if it was common or rare that these medals were awarded to those of other nations? Does anyone know if it would be possible, and how to do it, to trace who this medal was araded to.

Regards,

Gordon

Unless you have some other documentation, I don't believe the medals as presented show proof of having been awarded strictly to a general, the recipient could have been a long service oberst, for example. The anti-fascist medal is nice and the other E. German show long service/distinguished service, but I would expect to see higher medals on a general. Also, East Germans and other Warsaw Pact officers often awarded each other medals. The Soviet medal (second from right) is relatively common jubilee medal awarded in 1968 and I don't know about the scarcity of the Czech medal in question, many DDR field grade officers (MAJ-COL) would have worn foreign medals.

[Gordon Craig]

Soviet,

I do not believe this was a made up set. The wear on the medals is consistant with a set of medals that was aorn on a uniform and has been together for a long time.

Desantnik,

You are perfectly correct that it could have been worn by a senior officer, probably a Lt. Colonel and above, and not just by a general officer. Wishful thinking on my part?

Regards,

Gordon

[desantnik]

Nevertheless, a very nice group and scarce. The Germans tended to wear a modest amount of awards compared to the Soviets and I can't remember seeing a DDR medal bar with more than one foreign award on it. This is a definite keeper.

[John F.]

This award could have been presented to an East German officer, probably a Lt Col or higher from either the 7th Armored Division or the 11th Motorized Rifle Division who participated in the 1968, invasion of Czechoslovkia by the Soviets in order to preserve socialism from a dissatisfied Czechoslovak military who were planing to democratize the armed forces. Desepite the Czech President Svoboda's public protest of the invasion, I'm sure he supported it behind closed doors. It also could have been simply awarded to an East German liaison officer in Czechoslovakia for a job well done.

What is really interesting or odd about this bar is the the 50 year Anniversary of the Soviet Army Medal. This supports the idea that this guy was some sort of liason officer because this medal was only awarded to personnel in the Soviet Army prior to November 21, 1967, and maybe they extend the awarding to foreign officers as a courtesy. Another odd thing about this bar is that there are no East German longevity awards. At a minimum he should have at least the 5 year Treu Dienste Medal.

[Mike G.]

Gordon,

The medal bar set you posted is both unique and odd. I could be wrong, but I don't think in the NVA, more than 5 medals were worn across in a single row at any time. This was later changed to even less.

If you think about it, based upon what NVA medals are displayed, there is contradiction within what is present. The Hans Beimler medal normally would be reserved for a noteworthy dignitary or high ranking military officer. The NVA Brotherhood medal is banded with three orange stripes, again indicating a high ranking NVA Military Officer. But then the Verdienstmedaille der Nationalen Volksarmee medal that is present, totally contradicts the two that I referenced above. It is of the lowest class, which doesn't make sense.

John already observed that the Medaille fuer treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee is absent. This possibly could be explained by making the observation that perhaps there is another row of lesser medals that is missing that belongs to the set. But the presence of the lowest level of Verdienstmedaille among the different medals in this set bothers me.

Gorgon,

You might want to post your question about this medal set over in the DDR Forum also. It appears the medal bar is of DDR origin. Whether it is correct or not is another matter. I would opine the presence of that Verdienstmedaille negates this medal set belonging to any type of Field Grade or Flag Officer.

[John F.]

Gordon,

The medal bar set you posted is both unique and odd. I could be wrong, but I don't think in the NVA, more than 5 medals were worn across in a single row at any time. This was later changed to even less....


...John already observed that the Medaille fuer treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee is absent. This possibly could be explained by making the observation that perhaps there is another row of lesser medals that is missing that belongs to the set.

Hi Michael,

I think up to eight medals were authorized to be worn but could not exceed 14 cm (5.5") in length which happen to be the same size of the breast pocket, during the 1960's.

I believe the regulation stated that all East German awards, such as the Medaille fuer treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee, would take precedence over foreign military awards with the exception of State level orders or valor awards.

John

[Garulfo]

I could be wrong, but I don't think in the NVA, more than 5 medals were worn across in a single row at any time. This was later changed to even less.

It was authorized before 1983. After this date, only 4 medals could be worn in a row. ("Auszeichnungen der NVA der DDR" by K. H. Feder and U. Feder, Rosenheim 1994)

[Garulfo]

A maximum of 5 medals in a row was authorized (before 1983).

[John F.]

This excerpt comes from Lee Stewart's book “The Nationale Volksarmee” concerning the number of awards authorized to be worn. It goes along with what Garulfo posted.

MEDALS AND RIBBON BARS: Wear of medals and ribbons was introduced in 1956. Up to eight medals were authorized to be worn above the left breast pocket of the parade uniform on bands/bars not to exceed fourteen centimeters, the width of the breast pocket, in length. In 1961, the authorized band/bar length was reduced to twelve centimeters. Wear of any more than eight medals required special authorization from the minister of defense. Medals were worn on the parade uniform and ribbons were worn on the walking out, service, and staff service uniforms. When the Hemdbluse was introduced in 1960, wear of one band of four ribbons was authorized. Wear of four medals on the greater, and four ribbons on the lesser, social uniform was permitted after they were introduced in 1976. The early ribbon bars were of textile grosgrain ribbon mounted on brass bars. On 15 May 1975 art paper ribbons on brass bars with slide-on plastic covers were instituted. A maximum of sixteen ribbons could be worn without special permission from the minister of defense. Beginning in the 1950s, non-state award ribbons could be worn over the right breast pocket beneath specified state awards and other insignia.

[Mike G.]

I still screwed up.

Gordon,

Please disregard my comment about the Verdienst Medaille. It of course is of the 1st Class presentation type and therefore is correct and very much supports what is on the medals bar.

Once again, I was asleep at the wheel. Sorry about that mate.

Having said that, I now suspect there is a second row of lesser medals that goes to this set that is missing. I'm still not sure about why the first row is comprised of six medals, but that is another matter for discussion perhaps.

As regards your medal bar, I would agree it probably is for either a Field Grade or Flag Officer. You might want to search records relevant to Senior Officers that served in the NVA Volkmarine. For some reason, it seems the Navy guys were the ones that had and wore the most convaluted sets of medals, of all the different NVA branches.

Again, my apologies on my error in my original post.

All the best.....

Hi John,

The regulation relevant the wear of a maximum of 8 medals meant only a total of 8 medals were to be worn. This was normally accomplished by a top row with 3 and a bottom row of 5, before the regulation was again changed to permit only 4 across. When that went into effect, it was 4 on top and 4 on the bottom. Field Grade Officers and Generals got around this restriction by wearing only the highest Treue Dienst and Verdienst medal, instead of all 4 or all 3.

Ribbon bars of course were an entirely different matter.

[Mike G.]

Having again looked at the medal bar set, I'm now wondering if perhaps the Czech Medal has not been added and is not original to the set. All of the other medals including the Russian Medal, seem to hang very evenly in unison. The Czech Medal doesn't appear so uniform.

Gordon, is it possible to post a photo of the reverse of the medal bar? Perhaps that might be somewhat revealing to what is going on. Perhaps this medal bar actually was comprised of 5 medals, which would be correct, and the 6th medal is an add on that does not really belong?

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

Thanks for your comments.

Michael,
I have posted this bar on the DDR forum before and I put it here primarily due to the Czech medal. The bar has drawn more interest here than it did on the DDR Forum! I have considered that this was the second part of a set of medals and still lean this way. Particlarly after what has been said on this post. I even mentioned this to the person I bought the bar from but he had no information on it other than it had come into his possession like this.
I am going to post a couple of pictures that I think will settle the matter of the wear of six medals in a row. First, a picture of the medal bar the medals are attached to. Obviously made in one piece for the attachment of six medals. Second, a picture of Generalmajor of Police a. D. Alfred Dahl wearing six medals on one row.

Thanks again for everyone participation.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Generalmajor der Polizie Alfred a.D. Dahl wearing six medals in a row on a medal bar. This scan is from Vol. 2 of "Leben und Kampf im Dienst des Volkes - Literarische Portraits".